Car Audio

[naxos]

Ok, yall I have a 1996 Saab 900S Sedan, and for the entire time i have owned the car i have only used a disc man with a tape adapter and cigarette plug (pretty ghetto, i know)

But I dont see myself getting a new car anytime that soon, so I want to get new speakers and a cd player. Thing is, when it comes to audio, i dont know what I'm doing at all. Let me just tell you what i already have and what i have been looking at and you audiophiles out there can tell me how stupid i am.

What I have (hand me downs from my younger brother) - Alpine 300 Watt Amp ( he says its pretty damn nice)
-12'' Alpine Sub

Since that stuff is free, if i can use it, i am not going to buy anything else as far as a sub or amp.

What I want/have been looking at. I used the "What fits my car" feature at crutchfield.com. I know I want a CD Reviever that can play mp3 cds, and that i like the looks of, I was looking at this one (its the cheapest one that seems pretty decent..to me at least ;) ) Link (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8SeZnocfaSK/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=3&g=62700&I=113MP225&o=p&a=1&cc=01&avf=Y&search=)

You guys can help me with this, that one is 159 bucks, what more would i get out of spending 279 on This One (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8SeZnocfaSK/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=3&g=62700&I=113MP6025&o=p&a=1&cc=01&avf=Y&search=) ?? I just dont know what all the amps watts impedence means when its comes to audio!!! HELP !!! :)


As far as speakers goes...I was looking at these for the dash Link (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8SeZnocfaSK/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=51100&I=500SPS080A&o=p&a=1&cc=01&avf=Y&search=)

These matching alpines for the doors Link (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8SeZnocfaSK/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=52000&I=500SPS170A&o=p&a=1&cc=01&avf=Y&search=)

And finally these for the side pannels Link (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8SeZnocfaSK/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=52300&I=109GTO926&o=p&a=1&cc=01&avf=Y&search=)


I do have to say that there are so many selections for what fits in my car with the door speakers (6-1/2") that i pretty much just selected that alpine at random.


Alright, so if anyone has made it through this thread, thank you for your patience! And if you have any general/specific advice for me so that the crutchfield sales person doesnt take advantage of me and my ignorance i would appreciate it greatly! Thanks so much!

[Flybye]

Every radio will do one thing.....give you music. Everything else are asthetics, bells and whistles. If I were you, I'd just tell myself "Well how much am I willing to spend on a radio." And based off that price limit, select the radio with the most options and that looks best.

Since you are going to be buying it from Crutchfield, they will most likely give you a wiring harness. Make sure they DO! And if you don't but it from them, wherever you get the radio from, make sure you buy a wiring harness. The harness will allow you to connect the radio to the factory wiring harness without having to cutup the factory harness.

Every Amp has....an amp draw :P This is basically the amount of power it wil be pulling from the alternator and the battery. Big amps have been known to suck the juice out of an alternator this killing it. You could get other side affects, too, like dimming of lights at night, or your car battery not being sufficiently charged. With the system you are building though, you should be ok.

RMS watts are basically what the radio would usually be pushing out. You would want to match the RMS of the radio with a similiar RMS on speakers. It's actually good to go a little bit higher on the speakers. That way you will have a smaller chance of blowing them up. Peak wattage is just that. Where the juice to the speakers will peak at. I'm no expert, just a hobbiest, so I'll try to explain this as best as I can......

You know music has different tones. You got the low tones, the mid tones, and the high tones. All these tones tend to make the wattage fluctuate. This is why there is an RMS wattage and a peak wattage. The RMS is what most sounds will be produced at and the peaks are where some of the louder tones will spike to.

The Alpine amp should have a crossover in it. A crossover will filter out the highs and only supply the lows to your subwoofer. Also, some radios have a preamp subwoofer specific connection which will ONLY allow the lows to get to the subwoofer.

The easiest setup for you would be to make sure your radio has a subwoofer connection. That way you can simply run a cable from the radio all the way to the Amp. Some radios even have a subwoofer power cable which automatically turns on the amp when you turn on the radio.

Wiring the amp will probably be the trickiest part for you. You will have a total of about 6 cables:
1) Constant power
2) Ignition/switch turn on
3) Ground
4) Speaker positive
5) Speaker negative
6) RCA in

I've delt with Crotchfield before, and they are pretty knowledgable, but they aren't mind readers. Just let them know of the amp that you have, and how you would like to wire it, and they will help you out.

[tripodal]

Depending on weather you are attemting to save money or time you can buy 4gauge wire from home cheapo or the like, it is about .15- .30 per foot.
thats compared to $1-$6 a foot depending where else you might go.

Depending on the music you listen to, (in my case, and opinion) getting a 4 channel amp and using that to power your 4 speakers (doors and back) is FAR superior to just getting the coolest sub ever.

A good reciever and 4 channel amp go way far for sound quality and will work even on $5 special kmart speakers (tho the kmart ones only last about 2 weeks)

[Player0]

Since that stuff is free, if i can use it, i am not going to buy anything else as far as a sub or amp.

Good deal! It's important to set a budget. Car audio can get expensive fast. There's a fine line between what you need and what you want to show off. If this is for average listening, you don't need a lot to make it sound good. In fact, larger systems often sound worse without serious tuning time.

Crutchfield is a good resource for finding whats around. Don't rely too heavily on the What Fits My Car feature, it's not always right and can be misleading (I needed to do serious modifications to speakers that should have fit according to cructhfield). I would avoid buying any equipment from them, they are hideously overpriced.

Both of those receivers are fine. More expensive receivers generally have good qualization features and other pretty things. Go with a brand you trust. You will be hard pressed to tell the difference in preamps of any quality head so don't worry so much about that. The kenwood with the swivel faceplate may help prevent theft. But I wouldnt rely so much on it. I have the Kenwood KDC-X869, its a great head. I got it on ebay for $250 brand new.

I highly recommend a 2 driver system ONLY for you. Only get one pair of front speakers, probably the 6.5". But spend the extra money and get a GOOD pair. A pair of 6.5" components (a component set will have a woofer, a seperate tweater to be mounted elsewhere, and a crossover). At the recommendation of many car audio guys, I went with 2 speakers only, and it sounds amazing. There aren't smaller, lesser speakers screwing up the sound. JBL are very good speakers, I have JBL C608GTI components, $300 on Ebay. They're 10x better than some of the other components I tried.

Look online in audio forums. Im sure youll find lots of guys who have done installs on your kind of car and can tell you what fits. Brand is really a personal preference, and there are good and bad products under every brand. I also recommend shopping ebay. You can get many things new, and save a TON of money. I put $1480 in to my Honda's stereo, all from Ebay and some parts from SoundDomain (some mounting kits and harnesses and stuff). I even got most of my amp wiring (a Rockford RP1732 Dual Amp Wiring kit) on Ebay and saved $50 on that alone. If I had bought everything, at the time, on Crutchfield or SoundDomain, it would have cost $2610 or so. I saved over $1000 easy. Yeah, I went a little nutso, which is easy to do, but even if your spending $500, you will get more for your money shopping around. Many small audio vendors online will be willing to make deals as well, FYI. You just have to ask.

PS - There are some good car audio threads here from when I did this all. You might want to check it out :)

I do have to say that there are so many selections for what fits in my car with the door speakers (6-1/2") that i pretty much just selected that alpine at random.


Alright, so if anyone has made it through this thread, thank you for your patience! And if you have any general/specific advice for me so that the crutchfield sales person doesnt take advantage of me and my ignorance i would appreciate it greatly! Thanks so much! [/B][/QUOTE]

[naxos]

Thanks guys :) Very helpful. I called crutchfield and talked to them, they were very helpful. And yeah P0, im definetly not going to buy from crutchfield, Ebay has GREAT prices on car audio stuff! So im getting 2 sets of compoenent speakers and a Pioneer head. Then i get to get started having fun learning how to wire a car!!!!! I'm stoked!

Thanks again for yalls advice :)

[naxos]

Alright Guys, P0 you were right you sure can dump money into this! hahah, It keeps adding up :) But i want it to sound crisp and nice. here is what i got so far, then i want to ask a question about amps :)

Note I bought this stuff on ebay for 100 bucks or less than retail:

Pioneer 7600MP (http://www.cardomain.com/item/PIODEHP7600MP)
Infinity 50.5cs 51/4" (http://www.cardomain.com/item/INFKAPPA505CS)
Infinity Kappy 695.5i (http://www.cardomain.com/item/INFKAPPA6935I)

Now most of the reviews say these speakers sound a TON better when powered from an amp and not the HU. So I thought since im trying to make a long lasting investment and have it sound really good, I would get an amp. Now here is where I'm confusted, the back speakers RMS is 110W and the 5 1/4 are 85Watt So I wanted to buy a 4 channel amp (im ditching the sub idea, would distort my rear speakers without building some encasing for them) But I dont want to blow the front speakers powering the rear...can you adjust amps like this? I was told this one might suit me, what do you guys think? can you recommend any otheres (I want a CLEAR signal) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4950&item=5716726205&rd=1


Thanks again yall :)

[Player0]

Now most of the reviews say these speakers sound a TON better when powered from an amp and not the HU. So I thought since im trying to make a long lasting investment and have it sound really good, I would get an amp.

Yes, sound much better.

(im ditching the sub idea, would distort my rear speakers without building some encasing for them)

If its a mono sub and out of phase with the rears, it's gonna basically reduce the Qt of the rear speakers and may actually have a higher SPL level at a lower current usage. It *can* cause distortion, but most trunks are 'leaky', and most subs wont do much air if they are placed right (port torwads the rear). You can build enclosures for the 6x9s, or you can port/vent the rear deck with a couple holes. By rear deck had 6x9s but now they are just empty holes since i only use fronts. Anyway, Ive used subs with rears like that and have never had a problem with it. Only with a high powered proffional system would this be a real issue. I recommend a sub. I have REALLY good fronts and a great system, I can get 60-80hz out of my 6.5" pretty good, surprising bass with the JBLs really. But i have to hit em hard. Even a cheap sub can make a world of difference in the trunk.

Now here is where I'm confusted, the back speakers RMS is 110W and the 5 1/4 are 85Watt So I wanted to buy a 4 channel amp But I dont want to blow the front speakers powering the rear...can you adjust amps like this?

You cant have too many amps! A speaker will only draw what it needs. You can run a 40w speaker with a 2000w amp. In fact, you want an with a higher RMS than your speakers whenever possible. What does kill speakers is clipping, when an amp isnt giving ENOUGH power, and the speaker cone is sticking in the full up or down position. This melts and burns the coils. Get a good 125w x 4 amp or something.

Line levels should be adjusted coarsly at the amp, and fine tuned with the receiver. All amps I know of have level adjustments. usually, you want the line adjustments set to 75-80% of full power (my kenwood has a 5v line so I have to use a little less preamp in order to drive my amp without distortion). But all this tuning is done after the amp is installed :)

Thanks again yall :) [/B][/QUOTE]

[Player0]

Thats a good amp, but seemingly underpowered for your big rears. You can run it. You can run any amp. But you'll get distortion/clipping on a much quieter level than your speakers can give you.

[Flybye]

Did you notice the 3 preouts that it has?
# Three Sets of 2-Volt RCA Preouts (Front, Rear, and Sub)

# Front/Rear High-Pass Filter (50/80/125Hz, 12dB/oct.)
# Selectable Low-Pass Filter (50/80/125Hz, 18dB/oct.)
# Sub-Out Level (-12dB to +12dB) with Phase Control

You can fully adjust the frequency on the front and rears. You can setup up the fronts and rears as midrange units, and the sub will see the lows it needs from the sub-out.

You can have one small amp for the front speakers. Have the front amp nicely tucked away somewhere under the front dash. This will eliminate any messy wiring going from the back of the car to the front which you would need to have if you were to have one amp in the back.

You can have another small amp in the back to drive the 6x9s, and the Alpine amp hooked to drive the sub.
I see no reason to want to eliminate the sub, unless you simply don't want the Thump.

If we could get more details on the Alpine amp, you might even be able to use it to drive the 6x9s AND the sub without hurting either of the 2. If its a 3 or 4 channel unit, with adjustable power outs, then it would be perfect.

Who would have thought your audio system would turn into another project ;)

[naxos]

Well I have ordered all the components so here is what I have coming my way, hope its up to LN spec :)

1. Head Unit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5715976598&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT)
2.5 1/4 " Component Speakers (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5716775561&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT)
3.6x9 Component Speakers (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5716046468&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT)
4.JL 400 Watt 4 Channel Amp (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5717979135&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT)


Alright guys, what do you think? You think ill be sounding alright once this all gets installed?! Someone pointed me in the way of the JL slash Amps, but an $800 amp seems like an upgrade for later if i really become a super car audiophile.

[Flybye]

Are you still gonna use the Alpine amp for the sub?

[naxos]

If i put an amp in yeah ill be using 2 amps, the alpine is a mono....but i think im going to listen to the system with just the new speakers in first and see if i want the thump. And see if it will distort my 6x9's cause personally i'm more interested in CRISP clear sound than bassing out...but listening to some music with a ripping bassline and having good bass would be nice, but i hear the 6x9s can put out...we'll see. What you think guys?

[Flybye]

Originally posted by naxos
If i put an amp in yeah ill be using 2 amps, the alpine is a mono....but i think im going to listen to the system with just the new speakers in first and see if i want the thump. And see if it will distort my 6x9's cause personally i'm more interested in CRISP clear sound than bassing out...but listening to some music with a ripping bassline and having good bass would be nice, but i hear the 6x9s can put out...we'll see. What you think guys?
Dood, with the sub on it's own channel, like I told you above to hook it up, it will NOT affect the quality of the other speakers at all.

Besides, that JL amp has frequency adjustments on it. You can reduce the amount of lows going to all the speakers. You can basically set them all up as midranges and you will still be able to get good thump from the sub since the sub will be hooked up to the sub channel on the headunit.

[Flybye]

That entire amp will allow you to hook it straight up to the preamp outputs on the radio, too.