404A in Mach I?

[illmatik]

Figure I'll add to our new 12 step program forum w/ a lil poll for y'all.

I'm building a box for the couple down the hall, and figure this will score me a couple extra bucks to throw down on my P4 rig (alright its currently celery, but this will drop a 2.8C in no probs).

It so happens that said man is a refrigeration guru, works for Trane, knows heavy duty 2 phase scientific and redundant data center cooling systems by first name and such. Do you think a $500 mach I w/ his ability to mod it/charge it w/ anything for free will be worthwhile?

[Synthohol]

shoot, if its for free, its for me :)
i still have a watercooler guts i am planning on building a chiller with Farabomb one of these days!
i got that for free too!

i am assuming you already have the Mach I?

[illmatik]

No, don't have it yet, I'd have to pay for it, but it wouldnt be too much. Don't think I'll be able to maintain my current watercooled OCs in the warmer months.

[mdzcpa]

This is actually a very tricky question.

Most extreme folks get the mod. They go 404, or if real nutty, go 507. There is absolutely no doubt that performance is improved. Evap temps can be dropped another 20 to 30c. That *may* mean better overclocks...with most picking up a 50-200mhz (just a ballpark).

The downside....which is very real too...is that these gas charges (404 or 507) will reduce compressor life. Sometimes by a significant margin. I was just about to send my mach II to FUGGER (at XS) for a 507 charge when we discussed this point in detail. I ended up changing my mind.

Most that do it, do it for benching balls to the wall style. Bottom line, if you plan on letting your system run "all day" or (heaven forbid) 24/7 you may not be happy in the long run with the mod.

Food for thought:)

[illmatik]

Well from what I understand so far (not a whole lot), the gas change is better for ppl who do keep a 24/7 system as powering a gas changed danfoss will require 30 min to depressurize between power cycles. I don't mind the wear and tear on it, I'm hoping in 2 years time the next generation of cool chip pelts will be the norm ;)

The sole reason I'm considering the mach I or vapochill is because I can get any gas/oil[if needed] evacuation and refill for nothing. I can also get the capillary tube swap for like $50-$70. Being the friendly, helpful building computer guy and having a very righteous, do-good, christian cooling specialist with his own toolkit and unlimited access to ANY cooling gas for a neighbor do have its benefits. When he asked me how much gas would you need and I told him (maybe 30-40 grams), he laughed and said "Oh that's okay we have about 1200 pounds of 404 doing nothing."

[Kill-Switch]

You need to also consider te compressor. Can it handle the move to 404? Remember that the compressor will need to be able to start up and the 404 is denser (IIRC) so will require the compressor to work a lot harder to achieve the compression it needs to be effective.

I remember reading something about all this on the Vapochill site as some people wanted to mod a Vapo SE with 404 (or higher)

[mdzcpa]

Originally posted by illmatik
Well from what I understand so far (not a whole lot), the gas change is better for ppl who do keep a 24/7 system as powering a gas changed danfoss will require 30 min to depressurize between power cycles. I don't mind the wear and tear on it, I'm hoping in 2 years time the next generation of cool chip pelts will be the norm ;)

Unfortunately there is more to it than that. The compressor is always working to recompress the gas into liquid state as it recyles back to the evap when the unit is on. Getting the 404 to liquid state requires more compression....more than the danfoss in the Mach I or II is spec'd to handle. Yes, it is always more of a strain on the compressor on start up, but just running it will put strain on it. There will indeed be a life shortening to using 404.

2 years will likely be a big stretch. If you go 24/7 it probably won't survive nearly that long. There are already plenty of reports of failed units from gas changes. If the danfoss unit chip con uses could have handled 404 reliably, they would have used it.

[Spazzonater]

is there a liquid that is below 404 but better than what you get with the mach I or vapochill

[mdzcpa]

Nope.