Another car question (93 Cavalier) [Archive]

spldart

10-04-2003, 09:09 PM

I was looking at this car and the price was right and after some thinking I went to go get it but low and behold it wont start. The owner said it just quit the day before so I did some troubleshooting and found the fuel pump is out. I get 12V to the pump at the gas tank but it's not pumping anything, not even a noise. (tank is full)
Owner is willing to drop the price even further but how much of a job is this.
I've never even owned a car with the freakan pump in the gas tank. I know I have to drain, drop the tank, pull the assy that has the sender and pump, replace the pump and remount everything.
Anybody do this on a Chevy like this? Lot of work? Any pitfalls?
The car is bone dry underneath...Nothing leaks at all. All fluids look good. Engine compartment is clean except for a lot of dust. It drove fine when I was last there considering buying it.
4 cyl FI
AC
PS
PB/ABS
Nice body/interior
4dr
75 or 80k miles
Recent tune up.

Player0

10-04-2003, 09:20 PM

I watched it done on my 87 Chevy Wagon. Theres two metal straps that just pop off. They syphoned most of the gas out before with a tank syphon kit. And it just dropped down. They detatched the filter and line, unbolted the pickup and put the new pump down. I probably coulda done it myself.

If the pumps gummed up, you might want to use tank cleaner. Im not sure how much of a pain that is tho.

Synthohol

10-05-2003, 12:03 AM

it is a simple job, a wiring harness and 5 hose clamps with less than a gallon of gas in the tank its a 1 man job:)

tripodal

10-05-2003, 02:57 AM

Too bad its not a honda... you just pull out the back seat and its right under a cover... 30minute job if you ready to go.
U sure you have to drop the tank? A lot of the newer cars are similar.

spldart

10-05-2003, 10:21 AM

I even bought a service book at the auto parts store. I have to drop the tank. I'm just concerned about finding a way of siphoning out all this gas n'stuff :(

tripodal

10-06-2003, 12:28 AM

Does the tank have a drain plug? some do.

Otherwise you can find the fuel return line and disconnect it, feed it into a gas can. Turn on the ignition and let the fuel pump do the work.

Synthohol

10-06-2003, 06:27 AM

its that old job/union, chicken, egg thing.
if the fuel pump worked he wouldnt need to drop the tank to change it;)

BTW Spldart, sometimes you can get the fuel pump to work tempararly by smacking the gastank a couple times with the ignition on, sometimes the pump will vibrate one or two last times enough to empty the tank, just hit it with a hammer or 2x4 times and you will probably hear the pump turn on:)
also if you do the pump yourself, get a new "sock" too, it's the filter for the pump and needed to secure the new pump in place:)

spldart

10-06-2003, 08:28 AM

Thanks...I bought a siphon kit and pull all the hoses to the tank and put the siphon in right at the tank...Only way I could get it to work.
I got 6 gallons out and all was empty. Tank wasn't to bad to tear out.
New pump came with a hardware kit with new strainers, all seals, new vibration damper, etc etc etc.
Car is all fixed. Is it just a normal thing to happen sometimes to have the pump go out at 10 years + or - ?
BTW Pump kit 91 bux total.

Synthohol

10-06-2003, 09:27 AM

I'm glad you got it all under controll.
yes actually 6 years to infinity is the expected life of a fuel pump, i have seen them go earlier and after 15 years. ya never know;)
did you change the filter too? fuel filters are among the most neglected parts on a car. a restricted one can kill a pump too, all that pressure without a bypass can put a strain on things too! :)

spldart

10-06-2003, 10:27 AM

Hrm...I guess I'll put a fuel filter on next weekend. But fuel did seem to be moving through it real fast. (got a serious mess) :D
Bypass?

tripodal

10-07-2003, 02:06 AM

That really didnt even occur to me. Ive only replaced them for bigger ones.... Damn i look like a fool.
No different than usual tho.
Are the internals of the waterpumps weve been using take a blast of gas?

Originally posted by Synthohol
its that old job/union, chicken, egg thing.
if the fuel pump worked he wouldnt need to drop the tank to change it;)

BTW Spldart, sometimes you can get the fuel pump to work tempararly by smacking the gastank a couple times with the ignition on, sometimes the pump will vibrate one or two last times enough to empty the tank, just hit it with a hammer or 2x4 times and you will probably hear the pump turn on:)
also if you do the pump yourself, get a new "sock" too, it's the filter for the pump and needed to secure the new pump in place:)

spldart

10-08-2003, 11:16 PM

Argh...Now I have one blown diode in the full bridge rectifier :( It killed the battery and everything :mad:

Synthohol

10-09-2003, 01:43 AM

i wish you lived closer, those alternators cost me about 40.00.
i fix the copiers and computers at my local parts store and i pay 10% under cost for most everything:)

spldart

10-09-2003, 06:53 AM

Double argh! I need a discount :(
:P
It looks like Autozone online charges 59.95 for the cheapy 80 amp alt and 109.95 for the 100 amp model. I'm going to price Orielly later this morning.
Unless they can sell me parts for this "unservicable" alt. I have already taken it apart and know what I need.

Synthohol

10-09-2003, 08:19 AM

junkyard?

spldart

10-09-2003, 08:41 AM

For an alt? The ones around here would charge me 30 bux for one I could buy at orielly for 60 :( I figure I might as well get the warranty.
I sure hope I can just get the diode array for cheap :fingerscrossed:

spldart

10-09-2003, 12:27 PM

New alt installed...65 bux.
It has a warning tag on it...It reads " do not install this alternator without fully charging the battery. Failure to do so will cause serious damage to this product"

Why?
Alts are suppossed to charge batteries even if you have used the battery for a while with the car off. Like using your headlights, emergency flashers or what if you left a light on and came out the next morning to a dead battery. You can't jump it and let the alt charge the battery?
Who do they have designing these things anyway?
/rant

Synthohol

10-09-2003, 06:52 PM

funny thing about alternators, they are not like generators like in an old vw.
alternators require 12v to charge 15v.
if the batt is less than 12v it will put a strain on the alternator until the battery is at 12v nominal.

spldart

10-09-2003, 11:23 PM

True but you will find no such warning on an old musclecar alternator. My old Dodges never had a problem charging from a jump start state to fully charged :dunno:
I hate new cars :mad:
hehehehe
just don't build them like they used to :P

krucibus

10-11-2003, 12:03 AM

You got that right...

That's why I drive these:

'70 Barracuda Gran Coupe, 340 w/360 heads bored 30 over, Holley 750 double-pumper, 727 TorqueFlite, Dana rear end.

'71 Plymouth Roadrunner clone (Originally a 318 Satellite Sebring), rebuilt and re-worked 360, 8-3/4 sure-grip rear.

'02 Durango SLT, stock but with the works (It's still under warranty, so I can't touch anything yet), 360 Magnum engine, tow package, leather, power everything and doodads out the ying-yang.

Farabomb

10-11-2003, 12:18 AM

Mopar or no car ;)

tripodal

10-13-2003, 02:22 AM

That ws in the days of 1 year warranties. Nowadays they dont build any room for error into anything which is why you can get an alternator for as cheap as $40, there is no reason that your alternator, reguardless of what the sticker says, should not be able to run the car and charge a dead battery unless it is a piece of shiznit.

a battery below 12v will initially but a strain on the alternator, but unless there is a huge electrical load on the car otherwise it will juice up to 12/13 volts rather quickly and not be too strained at all, at 13-14v a good battery will not be sucking down mroe than 30 amps at the very most.
Infact iv seen battery manufacturers reccomending no more than 5a charging current. HA

Originally posted by spldart
True but you will find no such warning on an old musclecar alternator. My old Dodges never had a problem charging from a jump start state to fully charged :dunno:
I hate new cars :mad:
hehehehe
just don't build them like they used to :P

spldart

10-13-2003, 10:19 AM

So when they built them to run a quarter million miles and survive demolition derbys they had a 1 year warranty. But when they build them to maybe last 100 to 150K miles and out of lots of plastic parts they get 5, 7 maybe 10 year warranties.
Pardon my cynicism but the manufacturers are headcases.

I'm noticing a larger and larger discrepancy between the way they used to make them and now. 80's cars don't seem to be on the road as much as 70's cars and about the same as 60's cars around here :eek: And I'm not just talking restos but old beater 77 olds's with ticking lifters that just wont die, etc....But few 80's cars.

/end tie raid
I'm getting reminded hard core why i don't like newer cars with this Cavalier.

tripodal

10-13-2003, 10:26 AM

lol, i must be fortunate to have missed that age of the automobile. Are you completely opposed to buying a honda or a toyota?

spldart

10-13-2003, 10:29 AM

I wont even drive the Cavalier... :P
It's for the wife.
I'll continue driving my old mopar.
I have done some heavy work on toyo and honda though :shudder:

tripodal

10-13-2003, 11:43 AM

I love my civic 352,000miles and still running, I replace my alternator on friday in about 20 minutes. working on anything in that car is a breeze!

krucibus

10-14-2003, 02:06 AM

Mopar or no car

That's right!

I wont even drive the Cavalier...
I'll continue driving my old mopar.

You two are gonna make a grown man cry... I've got my family all trained, you should hear my 6-year old daughter: "Get out of the way, little car!" (I'm so proud!)

Next year- Gun control!:D