Liquid chemists - Weigh In!!

[Kabooka]

OK, now that my pc is liquid, the question is what is the right (best) liquid to use -

Distilled water as the base -

but what other additives and at what % are being used out there???

I heard some stuff about windshield washer fluid - and actually have that loaded in currently - if nothing else it's a pretty blue!

Has anyone ever thrown an ohm meter at their liquids to see if anything is better (less conductive) ?

[Drake]

Distilled water is non-conductive until it becomes contaminated, say with dust from a motherboard. I imagine windshield washer fluid is conductive.

Anywho, I know Lee swears by a 1:4 (I think) mix of distilled water and antifreeze. All commecial additives - WaterWetter and the like - were made for high-tempurature environments such as a car engine and their effectiveness is debateable.

[mdzcpa]

95% water and 5% anti freeze.

Water has the best thermal properties for water cooling a computer, so you don't want to over do it on the additives. The 5% anti freeze offers basic anti corrosion and anti life properties.

Water wetter is a waste of time. Water temps never get high enough in a PC to take advantage of it.

If you want color, adding any of the commercially available water dyes is fine....just don't over do it.

[Synthohol]

ill tell you what, desperate for antifreeze hours before our last lan party, i succumbed to taking about a quart of a/f mix out of my cars rad.
i filled my res with distilled water and left about 2" in the res empty and used the rad mix from my car to top it off.
that was june 7th and its been running fine ever since and boy does it glow with the u/v lamps in the case!!
have fun!!!

[megatron]

I use water wetter for its alkalinity, it also makes the viscosity of water lower (less resistance to flow). I read about this here, and have my ph value test kit to hand!
http://www.procooling.com/articles/html/chems_of_oc_n_and_super_coolin1.php

[Player0]

Agree with Mike and Drake here. I use a 10-15% mix of Antifreeze to water. I dont bother with water wetter anymore. Its $15 a bottle, and doesn't work at lower temperatures. Antifreeze contains anit-biologicals and other additives to help prolong tube and pump life, and it also prevents any galvanization affects from mixed metals.

Using windshield washing fluid isnt much better than using water. Its so sugar rich that its cooling potential is reduced, and doesnt have the features of antifreeze. Waterwetter by itself is also no good because its an additive, and doesnt have the benefits of antifreeze either.

Using distilled water or spring water is pretty much the same thing. Its all conductive once it comes in contact with anything like plastic or metal. Distilled water usually has high-temperature algae in it, spring water has cold-temperature algae. You dont want either growing, but used plain, distilled water usually turns red/yellow and spring water usually turns black/green :)

[megatron]

I changed my water after 6 months, and never saw any algae. Water wetter claims all the things that anti freeze does except it makes for a more efficient water cooling system not less. Anti-freeze is only necessary with chilled water, since pelts natural heat the water more...

I cant see into my cpu block (alu cap) but I washed out my rad and there was no algae. I do get a few particles which look like aluminium, but I made a mess boring out my scrappy rad. I have a z-chip with clear top so I will keep an eye on it. I use de-inoised water for car batteries.

[mdzcpa]

Although Water Wetter does have anti corrosion, lubrication, and anti life properties (as does anti freeze), it will do little for improving anything else in the system temp wise. It's designed for high temperature environments.

Basically what it does in the automotive applications is stop the small boiling areas in your cooling system by reducing the waters surface tension. WaterWetter prevents (or lowers) the occurence of these hotspots and that is how it "improves cooling". So unless your water blocks are getting hot enough to cause flash boiling in spots it will not help.

I beleive there is an article somewhere over on Overclockers.com that thoroughly covers all of this. I'll see if I can find it again. The bottom lime was that water was the best substance to use, and that you should only include a minimum of additives needed for lubrication, anti corrosion, and anti life.

[Player0]

Ive had algae grow in a water wetter solution. Most times, it doesnt grow because the solution itself is so toxic. But water wetter doesnt have any additional additives. Its only design is to help break up water surface tension and improve thermal transfer in doing so. Any antibiological performance is coincidental really, although it may be enough. Its usually added in to antifreeze anyway. Ive tried some really thick water wetter ratios in my systems and i never got a performance boost because the stuff doesnt even activate until about 60-70c degrees. Waterwetter doesnt have any lubricants or protectants in it though, and antifreeze does, and this will help to prevent the rubber in the system from cracking and becomming britle. Waterwetter is actually an alcohol based solution and will actually age rubber tubing and seals quicker than normal.

[Cabal]

I have tygon tubing in my system distilledwater(95)/waterwetter(5) and after a year or so now the tygon is turning yellowish, i blame this on the water wetter but could it be just water itself i dunno.

My other system has just tap water and antifreeze and the tube color is still holding just fine, but this system has only been up just 6 months....

As far as water temps with water wetter in my car (it should have enough heat to activate this junk) or pc cooling system neither one does jack for lowering temperature. Stupid gimmic product IMO.

[megatron]

http://www.procooling.com/articles/html/chems_of_oc_n_and_super_coolin2.php
"
Conclusions

First, change your coolant regularly. All additives reduce in effectiveness as they age I recommend changing your coolant at least every year or two to prevent scale buildup, biological growths and corrosion problems.

Second, use the required amount of additives and no more! Remember that more is not better. Adding too much of anything to your water will reduce the effectiveness of heat transfer and it might cause extra problems (e.g. too much bleach may corrode your gaskets).

Third, use distilled water as your base. Tap water has deposits that will clog up your system, cloud up your tubing and generally facilitate corrosion. It also has a healthy starter colony of life-forms waiting to grow in your system.

My recommendation for normal water cooling is to use a combination of Water Wetter™ (or one of its many clones such as Purple Ice) with distilled water (see the product for the recommended mixing ratio) and then change the coolant every 3-6 months. If you are concerned about biological growths, add some methanol or one of the biocides sold by humidifier companies. If you hate the residue that Water Wetter™ leaves in your silicone tubing, you might try using antifreeze (realizing that you will have a minor performance hit). If you run a chiller, change that to mixture to distilled water and methanol. Methanol has the lowest viscosity and thermal transfer characteristics of the additives to reduce freezing temperature.

"

[spldart]

FYI
Distilled water does conduct electricity. Just less than tap water which is less than salt water.

[mdzcpa]

Interesting link megatron. That it is indeed one users opinions on the matter and is good food for thought. In "theory" the use of WW sounds nice.

However, all the empirical data from countless user experiences that I've seen indicate zero (or a too low to measure) improvement in temps for water cooled PCs.

I used to use WW too. Like many, I didn't listen to what the other more experienced water cooling folks were saying about WW being worthless. However, after much debate, I eventually decided to try a number of mixtures myself. I tested numerous mixes of water, anti freeze, and WW. I quickly learned that WW clearly added zero benefit temp wise....none....zilch.

A bit perplexed, I talked to Gabe at Swiftech as it's right on their site about the recommendation to use 5% WW in the solution. He chuckled and said they recommend WW as an additive because it makes the users "feel better" and can't hurt as long as no more than 5% was used.

Well, that was the end of the issue for me.

The bottom line is that if WW did indeed improve the cooling of water cooled PCs, we'd have a boat load of article and reviews with well documented results about the temp improvements. But we don't. Instead we just have conflicting reports. These conflicting reports, just in and of thenselves, has to make you wonder about the true effectiveness of WW in the system. if it really helped temps, we'd have consensus on the matter.

[Synthohol]

My .02- I kinda look at a pc cooling system like a car's cooling system, theres copper, rubber, a radiator, sometimes brass and a pump.
finding the right mix of anti-freeze and water is the key i believe.
as i said above my mix is what was in my cars rad for over a year and distilled water as a base.
my tubes are still crystal clear, temps ok and its tooming along just fine without the need for any placeabo additives.
too much antifreeze it gets too hot, too little it gets too hot.
a 95/5 to 80/20 usually hits the spot in there somewhere. keep in mind a cars engine gets MUCH hotter than a cpu does so the suggested mix seems to bear validity in my .02!
just a thought :)

[Cabal]

In a pc watercooling system i think as far as improving temps both WW and antifreeze doesnt do crap in my case anyways. They might kill sea monkeys but they aren't changing the results on my multi meter (4 deci place fluke).

I just tried this morning as i wanted to find my own personal results and i got to flush my system just for kicks and to get some new sea monkeys in the cooling loop.

[mdzcpa]

Originally posted by Cabal
In a pc watercooling system i think as far as improving temps both WW and antifreeze doesnt do crap in my case anyways.

I would have to agree. Water is best for cooling (with the exception of methanol and a few other nasty substances I wouldn't go near). But, you do need those important lubrication, anti life, and anti corrosive properties anti freeze (or your additive of chjoice) supplies. So you need to add at least some.

[Kabooka]

OK some initial results ..... DO NOT use windshield washer fluid in a direct die application, and by the rest of the temp numbers - in a conventional one either -- Lotsa lotsa calcium. Temps crept up to 60-c. I drained the system, removed the calcium and refilled with Distilled water... went down to 45-c while folding - about 9 degrees better that the initial startup with WW fluid.. now I have to go buy some antifreeze...... Im logging some stats as well and will post when I get some good data...


Edit - temps are holding steady at 48-49