palomino / thb-a / thb-b

[4.6POWER]

Hey guys,

What do you think are my greatest chances for getting a t-bred b XP2100 chip?

I know if I order a 2100... they can send any of the above chips. But I know as things sell out... I can only get a tbred-b.

What do you think sells faster... oem or retail? I think I'll also be ordering from newegg since they probably move the most product.

Also- any difference between retail & oem besides warranty & HSF?

[Farabomb]

Avoid the 2100 if you can. I'd get the 2000 over the 2100.

Get a 2400 or a 2200 at least.

I've been buying retail CPU's lately but I've been gettin them cheap.

[mdzcpa]

I agree...if you can swing the cash...really try for a 2400. You'll be sure to get a "B" core and another 300mhz just to start off. The latest steppings have been overclocking quite well now too.

I also say avoid the 2100. It is impossible to unlock without physically cutting the chip.

So if budget is paramount, go 2000 or 2200 as Fara said. I can see the price drop is right at the 2100 now, but if you plan on wanting a different multiplier your stuck. Then again, if that is something you are sure you do not want anyway, the 2100 is at a bargain price now.
:)

[4.6POWER]

hmmm... well, I really don't plan on overclocking as my current rig is only 1000mhz, the xp2100 is already a big upgrade.

I thought the 2400 was only ~200 mhz faster... as the gap between each 2000 - 2100 - 2200 etc.. is only 66 mhz? still... i guess 200mhz is nothing to shake a stick at, but for almost twice the price... a bit much. Good advice fellas... i'm gonna sleep on it.

[mdzcpa]

Yea, it's always easy to recommend that someone spend more money which isn't theirs:). If you aren't planning on going for multiplier changes, than the 2100 is indeed a good deal and a good upgrade for $80.

[Drake]

Aye, if you are just running stock speeds without any overclocking, just buy what'll get the job done.

However, the 2100+ can be unlocked by closing the L1 and the fifth L3 bridges. The only disadvantage is the fact that the 2100+ pally cores overclock for crap, the tbred A cores arent that much better, and theres a slim chance that you'll get a tbred B core.

[mdzcpa]

Originally posted by Drake
However, the 2100+ can be unlocked by closing the L1 and the fifth L3 bridges.

On the XP2100 there is more to it than that. You need to cut one of the L10 bridges and close the other. Here's an article on unlocking the XP2100 (http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1009)

It takes a strong consitution to do this procedure as it requires taking a dremel, or other cutting tool, to the chip.

[Drake]

Sorry if I confused, but wouldn't closing the fifth L3 bridge or pinmodding the pally yeild multiplies 12.5 and below unlocked?

Here is the thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1709&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) where I got this info.

[Farabomb]

Now you have me confused. I've allways been under the impresion that to unlock a 2100 you have to break out the dremel and cut a bridge.

I've seen the pin mod before but I thought that was for unlocking any XP. I understood that connecting the pins was the same as unlocking via the L1 bridges. Maybe in the case of the 2100 bolth are needed to unlock and with the other chips you do one or the other.

I know OPP does his homework so I'm confused now. :confused:

[lechumbl]

Hi Al,

Look in our FAQ in General Overclocking.
I have an very good "how to" for XP2100+ and regular XP CPU's too.

Take care......

[mdzcpa]

Perhaps I may shed some light.

First off, the unlocking process for the HI Bit range (above 12.5)Palominos and Thoroughbreds is different. The bridges are not the same.

For unlocking the Pally HI Bit CPUs (the 2100/2200s), the pin mod essentially does the same thing as connecting the 5th L3 bridge on the Thoroughbreds.

So when unlocking a Pally you only do the Pin Mod and connect the L1s. You leave the L3s alone.

When unlocking a Tbred, you just connect the 5th L3. The L1s are already closed from the factory.

Now...here's the rub on Pin Mod for the Pallys (and I quote JBELL from the XS thread):

"The modification worked fine using an AT7 and KX7 but would refuse to boot on an AK35GTR with the latest bios. Due to differences in implentation of bioses and hardware pin signal routing on the motherboard, the modification will work on some motherboards but not all."

Unfortunately the only way to unlock the Hi Bit range Pally in a way that works on all mobos is to do the surgery on the L10 bridges per the link I used above.

Hope this helps.

[Farabomb]

See what happens when you don't keep reading the thread.

Thanks Mike tis now clear to me. :)

[Drake]

Hi Bit rangeIf that means multipliers higher than 12.5, then I have no need of that. I just wish to max out my FSB and keep the clockspeed as close to normal specs as possible.

My mobo doesn't have PCI/AGP bus locking so I don't image I'll get too far past 170 before my Radeon starts whining.

[mdzcpa]

No...that's not what I meant.

Both procedures I list above for the Pally and Tbred are for getting to the low range of multipliers (12.5 and under) from the Hi Bit ranged CPUs...EG XP2100 with a multiplier of 13. If you unlock the XP2100 in the manner listed, you will only have access to 12.5 and below.

[4.6POWER]

arrgghhh!!! decisions decisions... I am about to buy and am scratching my head.

I didn't realize the likelyhood of me getting a 2100 in "palomino" form are almost 100%. This seems like a whole different world... since the tbreds have optimizations in them which make them both cooler AND faster... so the difference between the 2100 & 2400 is indeed more than just a 200mhz clock difference.

Question is... now I'm only $100 away from ordering a 333mhz part... the 2600, which is both higher clock and more system bandwidth than the 2400. dam dam dam.... what do I do! I'm spending "christmas money" from my parents here... but there not exactly in the money.

If that 2400 was a 333-mhz part, this would be a no-brainer. Can anyone shed some light on that? Can it be run in 333mhz mode and not be considered "overclocked?" I want years and years and years outta this rig... like toss it in a box and let it be a server when I upgrade again, I don't want nothing stressed/heated/overclocked.... etc. Plus I don't honestly need this much power. ahh... enough ramble!! I'd like to hear your thoughts guys...

[Farabomb]

My 2000+ is running at 400fsb so getting 333fsb out of a 2400+ should be cake.

[4.6POWER]

hey fara... i'm almost at the point of buying an 1800 tbred for $50 and wait for barton to come out. :eek:

[4.6POWER]

aight.. i ordered it all... here goes:

abit nf7-s
XP2400
geil pc2700
antec trueblue480
elite black usb keyboard
klipsch promedia 2.1

It'll be aircooled... I already have:
Thermalright SLK-800
titan 38CFM 82mm fan (~30dba)

I can't wait!! This system should be super stable & finally QUIET!! I've been listening to my 2 60mm 5000RPM deltas screaming for 3 years.

[Drake]

4.6,

Just lower your multiplier to 12, up the FSB to 166 and you should be running just out of spec. I'm not sure if nForce2 boards offer access to all multipliers or not, though, so some work may have to be done on your CPU.

[mdzcpa]

Drake has again hit it on the head with the advice:)

Your NF7 will have access to all the multipliers on the XP 2400 without having to modify the chip in any way. Just drop the multiplier and up the FSB to 166 to run the same spec 2ghz as he said and you'll be all set. You won't need to touch the core or memory voltages at these settings:)

I think you'll be real pleased with your set up!

[4.6POWER]

the 2400 has arrived... it is a thing of beauty!!!

odd... it has no writing on the core whatsoever, when did they make that change? All it has is an extremely small amd logo. All the specs are printed on the base. Few more weeks and I should be up and running....

the geil ram looks really impressive too.. nice sinks w/the geil logo inscripted in it. I may have to buy another stick... for the other nforce memory controller. I can't wait to get this together...crank the details up on ut :2guns:

[Farabomb]

There is nothing written on the core??

and it says AMD Athlon really light??

Where did you get this CPU from?

I don't know if it changed with the T-breds but you may not gotten what you paid for.

I'm a natural pessimist but that does not sound right.

[4.6POWER]

hehe.. thanks for look'n out for me fara.

I think it's fine... the dimensions of the die look to be exactly what the b core is documented as. The amd logo is perfectly imprinted on it... and all of the capacitors/bridges look like they are where their supposed to be and are in mint condition.

plus... I ordered from googlegear, no way they would scam anyone, they have too much to lose.

frag ya later!

[Farabomb]

After I posted I went a lookin and it does seem to be correct.

I have to get me one of those soon. I think I'm missing out waiting for the barton :)

Yes you will frag me later. :2guns: :2guns:

I'm a little worried now that you have a new rig.

Is there a skin for UT that puts a target on your chest?

:D

[4.6POWER]

yo fara.. i dunno, I would have waited a bit more for barton, but the parents were itchin to have a box to hand me on xmas day... and upgrading the pc was the most logical thing to spend money on. If it were my cash... I'd still be waiting for barton or hammer, but I think I got the 2400 for an awesome price... it even went up another $10 a day after I ordered... dunno why. $160 for a b core @ 2ghz, how could you go wrong?

I'm not allowed to have the stuff till after xmas... so I don't worry about the frags, they won't be any faster than usual :D

[mdzcpa]

Nice chip 4.6:)

I think all the Tbreds do come with stickers now to identify the CPU....as you've both already surmized.

BTW, what is the stepping? Odds are a new B core 2400 will be smokin if you chose to overclock. So keep us posted if you so decide:D I think that you have a great system coming together.

EDIT: BTW...you'll have full access to the multipliers so be sure to run it at lower mutiplier and up to FSB to at least 166. Nothing would be running out of spec except the CPU bus with the NF2 chipset. And it's only a flick of the BIOS options away:)

[4.6POWER]

heya mike, thanks for the nod on the system :)

the numbers are:
AXDA2400KV3C
AIUCB stepping

I know... this is shaping up to be an overclock'n rig, but I tried to build it so it would run effortlessly & very quiet for a long time. I'll admit... the first game I get that stresses it the least bit I know I'm gonna be in that bios messin with the numbers, but I'm gonna resist for now :D

Still waiting on the abit mobo... I'm curious if this is actually a "second" shipment like newegg said and comes with the 4 mounting holes. Anyway.. it's en route, but fedex hasnt posted any updates since it left california.

Anyway... my HSF doesn't need the holes, so I guess it doesn't matter. Just something nice about getting the "second batch" of a mobo that sounds good. The SLK heatsink is supposedly better than the big alpha... but god is this thing delicate. The fins are really thin... it's funny looking at "the big dog heatsink" and it is actually about half the size of my slot-a HSF. I got a cool aluminum fan to go with it... it mates right up against the fins, I thought maybe it's casing would suck more heat outta the sink.

Plus-soundstorm combined with the kilpsh speaks... it's gonna be scwheet!! Can anyone tell I'm excited?! :D sorry for the rant... I'm having a strangely good xmas :p

[mdzcpa]

Everyone deserves a good xmas every now and then:)

BTW, no pressure at all about OCing that thing. I've built quite a few systems for family members that have had the ability to be OCed like crazy but weren't based on what they desired to get out of of thier systems. I can appreciate that.

That said, you really do need to run the system at 12 x 166 to get the same 2ghz from the chip. You won't need any increase in voltages...so there will be no extra heat...or cooling involved. The chip will not be overclocked at that point. But this setting will take advantage of the mobo and memory which are meant to be run at 166mhz. There's a lot of performance to have there...and it'll be running spec for the most part:)

Sounding like a broken record on this point...sorry. But the performance difference when you run at 166mhz is huge, and there is absolutely no downside.

[4.6POWER]

Hmmm... AMD seems to disagree, can't say I did not expect this though...

[4.6POWER]

Message Body:
Would their be any drawbacks to running my XP2400 proccy at a
12X multiplier with the 166FSB frequency? (i.e. heat/instability/life
span) Thanks very much,



[AMD]

Hello,

Thank you for contacting AMD's Technical Service Center.

The Athlo XP 2400+ has a locked multiplier of 15 and is designed to work with a 133MHz clock for 266MHz FSB. If you set the clock to 166MHz, you will be overclocking the FSB to 333MHz, making it run faster than it was designed. This is not recommended and will most likely lead to permanant failure of the processor.

Regards,

Richard
Customer Support Analyst
AMD TSC


Ehh, took a shot... very small chance they would admit to the 166FSB. Well, I think I'll just run it at 133 for a while... as it is I'm only running 105-110 on my slot a. When the software gets bigger and the system slows... I'll crank the mhz up as needed. Thanks for the encouragement mike :D

[lechumbl]

Hi Joe,

Of course AMD will say not to O/C.
If they say OK to O/C and the CPU dies, they will have to replace it for free, as defective.

Go figure...........

[mdzcpa]

Originally posted by 4.6POWER

Well, I think I'll just run it at 133 for a while... as it is I'm only running 105-110 on my slot a. When the software gets bigger and the system slows... I'll crank the mhz up as needed. Thanks for the encouragement mike :D

Fair enough my friend:)

[4.6POWER]

Thar she is...

any comments on the bridges? I am a rookie at the socket bridge stuff :rolleyes:

[Drake]

Thoroughbred B... I have no clue if it's any different from pallys, but to unlock a pally you just closed the L1 bridges.