Need some advice for 500$ combo please !

[The Therion]

Hi guys,

I've been a little away from things lately and i need to advise a buddy of mine on a new system,real quick.He needs

motherboard
cpu
memory
svga


Requisitions :

good svga for games
svga with video IN
motherboard for AMD cpu ( :D )


I was thinking nForce2 but i dont know about memory.If i recall correctly the Crucial PC2700 overclocked really well so maybe its better than getting a PC3200/PC3500, right ? (remember the 500 $ limit ).

About the cpus : Everythign above AMD XP 2200 is T'bred B which is cooler ?

Thanks for any help.

[NorthernYankee]

Mobo: Abit NF7-S nForce 2 $148
CPU: AMD 2400+ $183
Memory: True Samsung 2700 256mb $70
Vid: Sapphire Radeon 9000 VIVO $74

Total $475...these prices are all from Newegg...this would be a damn good system. Crucial 2700 overclocks for shit, the Sammy overclocks nice I can run mine at MAX timings up to 185 and relaxed at well over 200+. You could get Corsair XMS 3200 which would be good to but it costs $100 and would put you at $505 then you need to add in shipping. Oh and as for the Vid I put one of these in my parents puter and it is a good card just a tad bit slower than my 8500 128meg card.

--NY

[4.6POWER]

I like NY's advice.

If he wants a better vid card, maybe trade the 2400 cpu for the 2100. That saves you $100 and shouldn't really be noticable in games. I play ut2003 @ 1024x768 with a 1gighz proccy, and it's almost all I need but not quite.

With the extra money maybe go for a cheapo ti4200, or the new radeon 9500pro which I hear great things about. good luck m8'e :D

[Player0]

2100 isnt very overclocking friendly though. Id at least get a 2200

[The Therion]

NY ,thanks for the list.

At this point i must add something important.The items must be available at any New York computer store,because the guy that has to buy them is there,and coming here for Xmas.Next week!

So he must be able to go down a street and find these at nice prices.

Does anyone know of any computer store in NY that has everything in stock + good prices ? (preferably manhattan area :D ) (ok, ok, i'm asking too much :o )

[The Therion]

Crucial 2700 overclocks for shit

Uhhmmm....with this you mean it overclocks very well ,right ? :o

[Player0]

I havent been a big fan of Crucial DDR myself lately. I've been using Corsair DDR which I beleive is some of the best. It uses Samsung ram (although newer models may use Winbond chips I think, like Geil). Samsung is probably cheaper. But XMS3200 is nice stuff if it fits the budget. I'd avoid the Crucial if you want to overclock though.

(course, i get advertising money from Crucial, so if you do buy it, click on our Crucial link on the frontpage, and LN.com will earn a commision ;)

[The Therion]

About Crucial i was influenced by THIS review (http://www.overclockers.co.nz/ocnz/misc/ddrguide/5.shtml)

[mdzcpa]

So far good advice all around.

The biggest issue is that going retail is going to zing your buddy pretty bad!! Expect to pay 15 to 20% higher prices than ordering on line. Keeping it under $500 is going to be tough doing it retail. You'd assemble a much much better system by spending the same dollars on line. I'd push really hard to have your buddy order everything up from NewEgg and have it shipped to where he will be (with you) next week. Remember, shipping is free and 2 day from NewEgg.

If you can convince him to go on line, than NY has a good set up. I like the 2400/NFS-7 combo a lot...it will absolutely scream for the money. Perhaps convince your buddy to spend a few dollars more and get a good GF4 Ti-4200 card. I'd recommend the GAINWARD/CARDEXPERT GeForce 4 Ti 4200, 4ns, 128MB DDR, Power Pack Golden Sample for $165. It will offer great performance for the money and overclock great too (more free performance close to ti 4600 levels). The Samsung memory is a solid affordable choice so go with that.

If you do the Ti4200, you push the package to $530 but that would net you a smokin fixed budget system.

Again...go on line. The above stuff will cost you over $700 retail.

[4.6POWER]

I think you'll be able to find plenty of oem stuff in manhattan... if you notice, there are a lot of stores on pricewatch which are actually located in manhattan area. Always ask for discounts... especially if you buy more than one component from each place. happy shopping!

[WesM63]

hey The Therion,
Everyone has already made good suggestions. I just want to comment on the Gainward card. It's the best damned thing in my computer at the moment :D It o/c's like a beast, my higest o/c is 320/600 (stock cooling) which racked me 11,441 3dMarks on a 1.66Ghz cpu.

Good Luck, anymore questions i'am shure someone can help.

[The Therion]

Thanks for the advice guys.I will try to convince him to get the stuff online.Its just that he's on a tight schedule because he's coming here (Europe) this weekend.

Is the 2 day delivery guaranteed at newegg ? :(

[mdzcpa]

I've never been let down by them yet. If it is in stock, and you order soon (today) you'll certainly have it by the weekend (Wed or Thursday is most likely). Nothing is for sure but death and taxes, but odds are in your favor with NewEgg. They ship 2nd day Fedex that hasn't missed a beat for me over many orders.

4.6 might be right about finding retailers in your area. But...I hesistate to beleive any brick and mortar retailer who has to absorb retail costs (salespeople, shop space, etc) can match the on line prices. At least I've yet to see it in my area.

However, there is the advantage of having it in your hand when you pay...and having a place to take it back to should something go wrong. In the end, it all comes down to price vs convenience.

[The Therion]

Hmmm....do you think he can get those prices if he walks in and pays cash on the spot ?


another thing.I just went over at Anand's and they compared the XP 1700+,1800+,1900+,2200+ all with the NEW Thoroughbred core.

And the best overclocker for them (max voltage,stock cooling) was the 1800+ !

Is this so ? The 2200+ went from 1800Mhz to a mere 1822Mhz :(

[spldart]

I made an order monday Thanksgiving week from newegg using express saver fed ex ground. It STILL got here friday :eek: Newegg also offers a small fee to expedite handling of your package to the shipper, 2.95 I think :confused: They are very prompt as long as they have your payment promptly :D
They come highly recommended ;)

[WesM63]

That on the 2200+ is'nt right. Cause my "a" cored 2200+ does 12x180 for 2160 right now. I might be using to much Volts but who knows. I'am at 2.1V core and 3V dram.

I will agree that the t-bred 1800's are great o/cers I've seen some at 2.2Ghz.

[Farabomb]

The Therion, I've allways paid more at stores than on-line.

I 100% recomend NewEgg and they allways get my order out that day. The only problem I see is are you still located in over the pond? If so that rules NewEgg out. They don't ship outside the US (afaik)

As for the 2200+ not clocking well. Milage may vary. I have a 2000+ that won't go over 1.8 at all. :( Hopefuly you'll get a good chip that clocks well.

[The Therion]

Wes : they tested at maximum regular voltage (1.85).Still from 1800 to 1822 with that much higher voltage isnt promising :(

Can i ask for a specific chip batch from newegg ? Or do i just have to be lucky ?

Farabomb, a friend of mine lives in NY and he will do the job for this buddy of mine so newegg is ok. ;)

[WesM63]

hmm that's odd. I have a good stepping 2200+ also, mine is an aiuga 9.

Just luck of the draw :( Good luck.

[The Therion]

Thanks ,lets hope for the best then !

[mdzcpa]

Are you guys sure that all of those chips were Tbred B cores...and not just "new" Thoroughbred cores? The B cores were only released a few weeks ago, and I didn't even think they had started making the XP 1700, 1800, 1900, 2000 B core chips yet. Rumor was they were trying to get the last of the A core Tbreds sold first.

I went to find the article at Anands, but could not locate it.

[mdzcpa]

Okay...just found the article.

Those were the Thoroughbred "A" core chips. The "B" core chips that started with the XP 2400 and above are newer and overclock way better. Supposedly all chips will be made with the new B core over time. Right now, though, you may find that the pipeline is still full of "A" core chips for anything below the XP 2400.


HERE (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1039198840) is somemore info on the core revisions.

[The Therion]

Oh , ok , sorry for the mess Mike :o , thanks.So only 2200+ and up are "B" currently ?

[WesM63]

No 2400+ and up :) My 2200 is an a core.

[Drake]

AMD is now manufacturing all of their processors with the B0 core. (http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article2.asp?datePublish=2002/12/10&pages=04&seq=20)

[Farabomb]

I saw that Drake. Can't wait till they get into retail chanels.

[The Therion]

Well he ordered the following :

Athlon XP 2200+
ABIT KD7
Corsair 512Mb DDR PC2100
GAINWARD/CARDEXPERT GeForce 4, 8X AGP. Ti 4200, 3.6ns, 128MB DDR, Power Pack Golden Sample


Thanks for the help guys :) .Around the end of next week, i will help him set it up.(probably going to need to ask a few things here again :o

[mdzcpa]

No problem....we'll be here to help if needed:)

[The Therion]

Mike i see you have the same motherboard in your main rig.And it seems to me you're one of the most experienced pc user,so if you could lay out some info on bios settings and drivers (i dont think this friend of mine will want to overclock much and maybe not at all...at least in the beggining, so stability comes first).

Is the software installation order still the same ? First BIOS,then VIA,then SVGA,then DirectX,then the rest ?

[mdzcpa]

Originally posted by The Therion
Mike i see you have the same motherboard in your main rig.And it seems to me you're one of the most experienced pc user,so if you could lay out some info on bios settings and drivers (i dont think this friend of mine will want to overclock much and maybe not at all...at least in the beggining, so stability comes first).

Is the software installation order still the same ? First BIOS,then VIA,then SVGA,then DirectX,then the rest ?


For the most part, yes. What OS will you be running? I strongly suggest XP as it is by far the most stable OS.

Here's my usual set up:

At first boot up, flash the BIOS. You want to use the B8 or newer C8 BIOS with the KD7 (I prefer the B8). Do not stay with the shipping BIOS AE...it stinks....bad. If your not comfortable with flashing the BIOS just ask, but, in any event, do it....trust me on this. BIOS Here (http://fae.abit.com.tw/eng/download/bios/kd7.htm)

After the BIOS is flashed, reboot and enter the BIOS and set the usual parameters such as date and time. Check the Soft Menu III BIOS page and set the CPU to 2200 and accept all the other defaults on the page for now.

Under advanced chipset features:

DDR control- leave the memory timings at default (SPD) for now.
AGP control- set the AGP rate to 8x and aperture to 128 (do this before OS and Vid driver install)

Under Integrated Peripherals:

Set the devices you want to be using and disable those you will not be using. The onboard sound and LAN work great so you may want to be using those. Disable any unused devices such as serial ports, etc. Disabling unused devices helps keep resources free. If you want them all enabled, it no problem either.

Reboot and make sure the CPU boots as an XP 2200.

Install Win XP, reboot

Install Win XP SP1, reboot

Install VIA Hyperion 4in1 Driver (HERE (http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2)) ), reboot

USB 2.0 Driver (win XP does not offer naitively) Your CD will have the driver.

Video Driver

Audio Driver

Configure the OS to your liking:)

Check to make sure everything is working okay. If so, go back into the DDR Control and set the Memory to CAS 2 and 4 way interleave. Leave the memory speed at SPD. These settings will net you some nice performance gain, but still be nice and stable.

There are a few more tweaks you can make, but if stability is #1 I would stick with these for now.

If you have any other questions, just ask.

[4.6POWER]

good advice mike :)

[The Therion]

Thank you Mike,really helpfull as always http://www.liquidninjas.com/bbs/images/icons/icon14.gif

[mdzcpa]

Anytime:)

[The Therion]

Oh, about the svga.Do i install him the Gainward drivers or do i go for Detonators ? He will be using the video - in feature for capture.

I ask because sometime ago detonators didnt work well with the extra features of video cards (tv-out,video in etc).

If there is no problem , which detonators do i get and from where ? (i dont think i want to get the latest ones in ANY case ! , i want the most stable ones of the latest :D )



PS : i downloaded the VIA Hyperion 4in1 4.45 ,and the kd7b8 BIOS (the bios is only 10kb is this correct - cant test it now so i dont know if the file is complete/corrupt or anything)

[Drake]

I'm fairly certain that the drivers are not that small, but I never looked. Anyway, just download the drivers from here (http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2) and you'll know you'll be getting the latest out there.

[mdzcpa]

The downloadable BIOS file from Abit should be an executable. It will unpack everything you need (flash program exe files and the BIOS BIN file). The downloadable exe s/b 255 KB.

I use Dr FLASH to format a floppy. Then I copy the Abit flash files (ABITFAE, AWDFLASH, RUNME) and the BIOS .BIN file to it. Pop it in the floppy and reboot. Type RUNME at the prompt and your set.

For the video...If you want the best chance at things running the right way, use the driver on the CD or the newest one available for download off the manufacturers website only. Often the Detonators can bring more performance, but sometimes at a cost for some users. I would go with the lastest from the manuf website myself if building for stability and function.

You can always try something new later:)

[The Therion]

Ok, the drivers are 1.3MB but the bios was only 10k , not 255kb,so i must get it again.

Thanks.We will most probably set it up this weekend :)

[mdzcpa]

If you need any help, you know where to find us:)

[The Therion]

The chip code is
AXDA2200DKV3C
AIUGA Q236DPHW

I guess its an A core right ? Is this AIUGA a decent series ?

[WesM63]

Hey The Therion,
defintialy flash the bios, i used the C8 bios. If you download that one it has all the nessacry files needed.

The AIUGA seems to be the best A core stepping. Yes your chip is and A core. :)

[The Therion]

Oh,nice !

hmmm...Wes now my friend has a similar Pc to yours : XP 2200+ AIUGA,same mobo,same svga (only he has the gold) plus you have 256Mb 3200 ram and he's got 512MB 2100

[WesM63]

That's funny, lol.. well i hope he has as much luck with his as i have mine.

p.s.. my GF4 is a golden sample. :D The Ultra 650 tv to be exact

[The Therion]

lol :D even more similar then