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View Full Version : My Love/Hate relationship with UT3.


Flybye
11-28-2007, 03:30 AM
I've been pretty quiet about UT3 since it has come out. Been playing it, dissecting it & tickling UE3's feet.

I have screen shots of UT3 dating back to 2005, and I was expecting a LOT. Especially being as faithful as I have been with over 1000hrs logged into ONS in 2k4. The entire community my clan plays with is pretty much in the same boat...we waited 3yrs for this? It took 3yrs to create THIS? Where are the massive warfare maps we were promised? Where are the seamless map changes from one to the other? Did Gears of War have 99% of Epic working on it while the only guy left inside the Unreal Tournament studio was the guy in charge of emptying the waste baskets?

Not only were many promises shot out the window, but a Release Candidate was given to the public. It is evident that it IS a release candidate with the numerous bugs the game has. Constant crashes, weapons firing directly from character's heads, view cameras positioned taller than the character's bodies, Hell Bender without even a charge metre, vehicles with far to low sound effects, server side problems, etc. I could go on and on.

DM, TDM, CTF, and VCTF
I guess there isn't much you can screw up in this department. DM is the same insane speed as it always has been. Grab your gun, walk around & pull the trigger. Same for CTF. All is well here and nothing bad can really be said about them.

Warfare
Oh boy. Here is where my biggest rant is. This is, by far, the BIGGEST newbiefied part of UT3. With an endless parade of messages, I'm surprised they didn't include a message that reminds you to go to the bathroom. Onslaught has been rinsed, spun, rinsed again, and left on the floor to rot from the humidity.

Messages:
EVERYTHING about the messages is completely backwards. Defend the core, defend your node. Defend defend defend. ONS/Warfare is about push push push. Otherwise, how will you complete your objective of destroying the power core? Epic has a far better plan. Camp out at the core while it is under attack and don't worry about taking over the prime node again.

And these messages seem to work. I don't think I have ever seen so many newbs camp the core than I have now!

Orb:
Ok, so we got tired of people not being able to take over nodes quickly enough. Let's design a tool which allows newbs to instantly take over a node!! It's better than the redeemer. I can instantly make it MY node! What is the general tactic here? Protect Orb guy. He can save us.

IMHO, the orb takes the work out of the game. We no longer need to work at bringing down or bringing up the node. Just bring Orb guy to save the day. It almost instantly. I can see why most messages indicate defend defend. Once you finish defending, you take the orb in order to instantly take over the next node without even breaking a sweat.

Node Configurations:
Has Epic learned ANYTHING at all? Every node configuration is a linear pathway. What made maps like Dria and Dawn so great? There were constant battles going on through out the entire map. Constant pushes and constant pulls. It was madness, and it was great. What's the objective now? One big battle at a node. Now let's move the battle over to the next node. Great. We finally reached their core. Oh wait, one of their players reached prime with the orb. Let's do the same so we can quickly get back to killing the core.

And what happened to the massive maps we were promised? Instead, we have been blessed with a large number of tiny maps

Raptor:
Used to be a true vehicle of death. Now, be lucky you don't catch someone behind you because if you do, it will take you 3.2yrs to turn back around to shot them. Might as well continue in a straight line forward. This linearity thing must be catching on. They must have figured the better missiles would compensate for the far worse turning time.

Scorpion:
The simplest of vehicles is now one of the strongest. The fearful basketballs it throws out of its cannon are truly something else. They home in to everything.

Goliath:
In the hands of a veteran tanker, the 2k4 tank actually had a chance of surviving a Manta attack. With it's new turning speed, if you get caught by a Manta, your best bet is to take a nap and wait until the traumatizing moment is over.

HellBender:
The god of sniping vehicles. In the hands of a skilled sharpshooter, the Bender was a formidable defensive/offensive weapon. It was truly a vehicle to fear. Not only has the new Bender's rear turret been reduced by nearly 50%, but we are completely unaware of its charge capacity due to a lack of charge metres.

The slow turning speed of most of the vehicles makes them sitting ducks for the Manta. Except for the scorpion and its new homing basketballs.

User Interface:
What on Earth were they thinking with the UI? 2k4 gave us FULL control of custom cross hairs, large number of graphic options, server favorites, player buddies, server player list, and countless other reasons why 2k4 was better.

So where am I going with UT3? Luckily, UT3 is filled with eye candy. And I LOVE eye candy. :D Many of the teams in my community would have been happy with a prettier ONS. Instead, we were given an unfinished product.

Many of us are already looking into making UT3 actually enjoyfull. I have personally converted Dria, Dawn, Primeval & Frostbite into a 3DS format. And am now testing the import of that file into UE3. I personally have a lot of hope. Hope that I can turn UT3 into something far greater than what it is showing to be.

Flybye
11-28-2007, 03:37 AM
Oh, and a mention on the campaign; Quite possibly the worst put together campaign on the planet.

It is nothing more than a Cutsceene:map:cutscene:map:cutscene type of event.

i had been hoping for a deaply involved story line as they did with Gears, but many of us knew we were wrong.

Synthohol
11-28-2007, 03:50 AM
Fly, i must say that this is by far your most outstanding post i have ever read.
i'd even like to see it in the review section if was active!
i tried loading the demo on 5 of my boxes and each failed in one way or another so i didnt have the confidence the final release would be any different.

Flybye
11-28-2007, 10:51 AM
.....i didnt have the confidence the final release would be any different.
Too bad we don't even have the final release.

Midway and their infinite wisdom pushed Epic too hard into getting this game out. Management was sloppy enough to even leave the name RC7 on the DVDs. If this were a bug free game, then I can overlook that little fact, but it's not. It is clearly a Release Candidate with numerous bugs left in it.

But I wonder....was it really Midway or Epic's fault?

Gears of War has a tremendous amount of bugs in it as well. Using the same engine, BioShock has a decent amount of bugs, but BioShock shines with the game content, and was certainly enough to overlook the small issues it had with it. UT3, on the other hand, has been completely funked up on nearly all corners.

A beta for the first patch exists already. Webadmin should Hopefully exist by the 2nd patch.

Epic acknowledges the game's UI is less than stellar for the PC users, and is currently working on it. At this point, I am not holding my breath for them.

Kill-Switch
11-28-2007, 12:32 PM
The problem ... the developed it for multiple platforms. They had to dumb it down for the n00bs on their PS3s and XBox 360s because we all know that consoles suck at FPS games ... especially one the likes of UT.

I agree with you Flybye, there's a LOT wrong with UT3, from the GoW look to nerfed vehicles, hell even the name stinks of console conversion LOL. All we can hope is it gets fixed or the mod community doesn't give up hope and steps up to the plate to fix it ;)

Flybye
11-28-2007, 12:46 PM
Yep, sadly enough, epic has gone the Console route. Can't really blame them, though. They need their money. Just like Porsche was forced to build an SUV for the american market to help keep them afloat. And, of course, the americans jumped all over it. Now we have every pretty rich blond buying one to go to the malls with.

Oh sorry...back to UT3. :D

My community and I are NOT taking this lying down. We already have the ball rolling on several projects.

http://pubheroes.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6450#post6450

Flybye
12-08-2007, 12:04 AM
Well, finally decided to take matters into my own hands.

http://www.itsflybye.com/public/images/games/UT3/Dawnv2/Dawn13.jpg

I am redoing ONS-Dawn, and several other maps will follow. :D

The latest Beta Patch 3 from Epic has a lot of good updates. FOV, additional mouse sensitivity, server favorites, server spectating, increased shock damage to certain vehicles, tweaking of certain vehicles, and so much more.

UT3 is going to be an awesome game. :D

Kill-Switch
12-08-2007, 02:01 PM
I'll be glad when they finally release a proper patch for the game. Yes I know we're pretty much using a Beta release as it is so installing a Beta patch shouldn't mean anything, but hey LOL

Druggist
12-08-2007, 11:56 PM
I only played the demo. My first experience with UT and i thought it was ok. But im suck a huge cod2 and cod4 player its so different to what im used to playing for a fps. Probably be one of those games i will pick up for $5 in a clearance bin in a years time hehe. Likes graphics alot but just not used to UT gameplay.

Nut
12-09-2007, 11:47 AM
Well, finally decided to take matters into my own hands.

I am redoing ONS-Dawn, and several other maps will follow. :D

The latest Beta Patch 3 from Epic has a lot of good updates. FOV, additional mouse sensitivity, server favorites, server spectating, increased shock damage to certain vehicles, tweaking of certain vehicles, and so much more.

UT3 is going to be an awesome game. :D

You have any of the maps you are redoing on an FTP? I'd love to test them out.

I've been a bit disappointed so far as well. Haven't logged much time with it. Looks pretty, game play just doesn't seem to flow as well.

Player0
12-09-2007, 01:13 PM
Where are the massive warfare maps we were promised?

Chances are, in UT3.1 or UT4 or what ever comes out 6 months later just like with what happened to 2K3/2K4 :D The maps are seriously gorgeous, but seriously under done.

However. I was playing on this map (sorry, I havent had time to play enough to remember names) but I'm playing in this big city. When I looked at the buildings in the background, they MOVED with my perspective! The massive maps ARE there, but most of it seems to be background scenery thats not static. Is that what they meant?

Did Gears of War have 99% of Epic working on it while the only guy left inside the Unreal Tournament studio was the guy in charge of emptying the waste baskets?

The engine is there, no doubt. That's where Epic put their time. I can guarantee you that GoW didn't have much more than UT3 did. But it's clear that time was spread thin on both games.

Not only were many promises shot out the window, but a Release Candidate was given to the public. It is evident that it IS a release candidate with the numerous bugs the game has.

I agree that the game was released before it's time. But people are making too much of this RC thing on the DVD. EVERY game is a release candidate. It was considered for release, it passed some level of QA, and it was made final. It's not a symptom of some major failing at Epic. It's not uncommon these days for games to be released on a deadline and rely on patches to 'make things better'. Epic IS going to make at least some things better, and thats the important thing.

What's the difference if the game is released now with a couple flaws that need a patch or later in perfect condition? At least you get some playtime out of the game now. If Epic had waited for perfection, you'd not get to play. So which would you prefer?

Constant crashes, weapons firing directly from character's heads, view cameras positioned taller than the character's bodies, Hell Bender without even a charge metre, vehicles with far to low sound effects, server side problems, etc. I could go on and on.

I wonder how typical any of the bugs are? I haven't actually experience any bugs in the game.

DM, TDM, CTF, and VCTF
I guess there isn't much you can screw up in this department.

A lot of people prefer good old fashioned DM and CTF to any of the other modes anyway. I think there's a lot you can screw up, and a lot UT3 makes better. It's unfair for you to judge the game simply because of bad Warfare experience when theres whole groups of other people who love the game for it's awesome DM play.


Warfare
And these messages seem to work. I don't think I have ever seen so many newbs camp the core than I have now!

Who wants to play with newbs? If the messages throw people off, it's just better for you and your clan.

I *DO* like the new arrows though. It's nice to be pointed in the right direction once in a while. People can choose to ignore extra sensory input :)

Orb:
Orb sucks.

Node Configurations:
They suck too.

And what happened to the massive maps we were promised? Instead, we have been blessed with a large number of tiny maps

There will be TONS and TONS of maps developed so im not so worried about that. Im sure there will be some massive ones. There always are.


Raptor:
[i]Used to be a true vehicle of death.
I can see them toning it down JUST a bit, and improving missiles is a good thing. The future should have something better than a SCUD after all. But it's just annoying to control now.

Goliath:
They ruined it.

HellBender:
It was never that great to begin with unless you needed to take out a node from half a map away or an occasional raptor. But it was so slow and left you so far away from the action that its hardly ever worth it. It should probably have just been deleted :)

User Interface:
What on Earth were they thinking with the UI? 2k4 gave us FULL control of custom cross hairs, large number of graphic options, server favorites, player buddies, server player list, and countless other reasons why 2k4 was better.

The lack of options is SO NOT UT it makes MONKEY ANGRY. This is the worst and most annoying aspect of the game for me.

Instead, we were given an unfinished product.
Not unfinished. Badly planned. Changed for the sake of being changed. But finished.

Synthohol
12-09-2007, 01:20 PM
I agree that the game was released before it's time. But people are making too much of this RC thing on the DVD. EVERY game is a release candidate. It was considered for release, it passed some level of QA, and it was made final. It's not uncommon these days for games to be released on a deadline and rely on patches to 'make things better'.
Wow, sounds alot like Vista to me ;)

sorry, still bitter that i cant get the demo to run, i was actually gonna buy this one too since i have bought all the rest of the UT series. i just wanted to try it first.

Flybye
12-10-2007, 12:38 PM
......HellBender:
It was never that great to begin with unless you needed to take out a node from half a map away or an occasional raptor. But it was so slow and left you so far away from the action that its hardly ever worth it. It should probably have just been deleted :)....
Hehe...ya know, you would get shot in our community for saying that. ;)

The Bender is one of the most strategically important vehicles for us.
We have guys that specialize in nothing but bender sniping who are able to protect a node for an almost indefinite amount of time.

We have had matches when the Bender would park itself next to the Tank in Dawn. It was in insane duo. The Bender would automatically delete any incoming Raptors and the Goliath would destroy any incoming Mantas. the problem that we have now is the Goliath's turning is not as fast as the Mantas. But one can say the Goliath's minigun is far more effective than 2k4's, so it becomes just a matter of switching to it.

The Bender was also an effective node build prevention tool. One of our strats for Crossfire consisted of driving the Bender to Prime, building Prime, and then parking the Bender in a special spot. Once the enemy would try to build the centre node, we would "tap" it with the twin beams to immediately take it down. Of course, the enemy would eventually find us, but it was at least 5-10s we just bought ourselves while we worked on the rest of the map.

It was simply hilarious doing this in pubs. Nebs were always left with a :wtf: in their mouths and would instantly give us map control. :D

What's the difference if the game is released now with a couple flaws that need a patch or later in perfect condition? At least you get some playtime out of the game now. If Epic had waited for perfection, you'd not get to play. So which would you prefer?
Would you prefer a lemon or a car in perfect working condition fresh out of the car lot? IMHO, if the game is released, it should be released in perfect working condition. But at least we are currently on Path Beta 4, and MANY improvements are definitely being seen.

I wonder how typical any of the bugs are? I haven't actually experience any bugs in the game.
We are rather anal, and believe me, we see them all.

Oh, the massive warfare maps we were promised was pretty much a system like GoW's. Every map smoothly transitions to the next to make it seem like one large world.

Flybye
12-10-2007, 12:42 PM
You have any of the maps you are redoing on an FTP? I'd love to test them out.

I've been a bit disappointed so far as well. Haven't logged much time with it. Looks pretty, game play just doesn't seem to flow as well.
You are more than welcome to check it out. But it IS a Beta1. So please read the description so you will know what to expect and won't be dissatisfied with its content. :)

http://pubheroes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345

Flybye
12-10-2007, 12:58 PM
....I've been a bit disappointed so far as well. Haven't logged much time with it. Looks pretty, game play just doesn't seem to flow as well.

Same exact problem we are having. With 2k4, many of us would instantly spend hours and hours playing it.

The Orb causes the maps to be finished FAR too quickly. Where is the sense of working for the node? Working to get it up and protect it while it is being built. All these elements are gone and can sometimes cause a map to finish extremely fast.

It leaves me with a sense of "I wanted more out of this battle." Oddly enough, quickly switching between maps is not as entertaining as having a big juicy battle on one map. But, apparently, Epic figured "Hey, we know stupid people don't know how to properly bring up and take down nodes, lets create a tool where they can instantly do both at the same time!"

Admins, feel free to merge this post with the my previous one to Nut. :)

Kill-Switch
12-10-2007, 03:27 PM
Epic figured "Hey, we know stupid people don't know how to properly bring up and take down nodes, lets create a tool where they can instantly do both at the same time!"

Those "stupid people" would be the console gamers that UT3 was joint developed for. Just another reason to hate them :2guns:

Nut
12-10-2007, 07:30 PM
Same exact problem we are having. With 2k4, many of us would instantly spend hours and hours playing it.

The Orb causes the maps to be finished FAR too quickly. Where is the sense of working for the node? Working to get it up and protect it while it is being built. All these elements are gone and can sometimes cause a map to finish extremely fast.

It leaves me with a sense of "I wanted more out of this battle." Oddly enough, quickly switching between maps is not as entertaining as having a big juicy battle on one map. But, apparently, Epic figured "Hey, we know stupid people don't know how to properly bring up and take down nodes, lets create a tool where they can instantly do both at the same time!"

Admins, feel free to merge this post with the my previous one to Nut. :)

I totally agree. When 2K4 came out I played until my hands, arms and neck hurt. Now the only thing that hurts is my wallet :)

Dawn wass my absolute favorite map. Well balanced, large and always gave either side a decent chance to win provided there was some communication on the winning team. I think our Clan played that map many times for sometimes 30-60min before a side won and everyone loved it.

I don't know about this version (ut3). I do not see the posts in the community on how great the game is. They just are not there. If someone complains about the game, their thread is deleted and they are banned. Seen it far too many times. I guess they know they released crap but don't feel people should talk about it. Now I believe it will be remedied with future patches and the mod community but honestly I think it might be too late. I think they dropped the orb :) Stupid orb!

Flybye
12-10-2007, 07:40 PM
It's like I've been telling everyone, we were dropped a Ferrari on our laps with an untuned engine and rusted body.

Just a little bit of work later and... ;)

Kill-Switch
12-10-2007, 10:07 PM
No, we were dropped a Ferrari with 4 flat tires and an engine that is not running on all cylinders.

Farabomb
12-11-2007, 12:10 AM
No, we were dropped a Ferrari with 4 flat tires and an engine that is not running on all cylinders.

That would be a Fiat. :D

Nut
12-12-2007, 09:50 AM
You are more than welcome to check it out. But it IS a Beta1. So please read the description so you will know what to expect and won't be dissatisfied with its content. :)

http://pubheroes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345

Good job so far Fly.

Got a chance to check it out. I wonder why Epic did not remake Dawn as it always seemed like a popular map.

Flybye
12-12-2007, 10:20 AM
Thx. :)

Epic has done a lot of things we are all questioning....