Very interesting perspective on 9-11

[notoriousformula]

http://saturn9.ws/loosechange.html

[Mortaldragon]

bit long lol but nice perspective

[illmatik]

Yeah I have just about every documentary on the subject. Just watched the 2nd edition of loose change last night. Has a couple of interesting clips that weren't seen before, especially Larry Silverstein explaining the "pulling" of building 7 and how the call was made by the fire chief (who I guess is automatically a demolitions expert)

Kind of similar to the great Enron documentary 'The Smartest Guys in The Room' where a bunch of jerk :mad2::mad2::mad2: traders with no authority call a power plant supervisor and tell him to stop power output, causing the California rolling blackouts a fe years back.

[Synthohol]

i wont get started on this again, i would be hanged for treason.
the powers that be want us to believe it was a plane not a missle. HA!
i have to stop now.

[notoriousformula]

i wont get started on this again, i would be hanged for treason.
the powers that be want us to believe it was a plane not a missle. HA!
i have to stop now.
c'mon man.. i posted this so we can discuss and get some smart-american people's opinion on this...I don't think FBI is monitoring us.. or are they? :scared: ..I'm a canadian so i think i'll be okay..

[Player0]

These conspiracy theories aren't anything new. There are certainly a lot of questions with out answers, and although I don't beleive everything currently considered 'canon' about 9/11, theres definitely things in this video that dont make sense.

The controlled detonation theory about the buildings is absolutely silly. Does anyone beleive that crap? You don't add 100,000 pounds of force to the top of a building without expecting the damage to travel down to the bottom of the building. The bottom of a skyscraper feels the exact same force that the top feels. Multiple explosions or steel beems inside the construction exploding from the force of a crumbling building? In a building a big as one of those, the steel is going to act like a fluid when bad things happen to it.

Bottom line is who knows? Prolly never find out, and this is a lot bigger than a kennedy assasination. Pearl Harbor is a perfect referrence, there are lots of theories about that as well, how the US allowed the Japanese to bomb us just so we could go to war.

I honestly don't think our government has that kind of power. The bigger something is, the less effective it is. I dont think the US government has the ability to get anything done, and I dont think the Bush brothers have the cognitive resources to be a part of something like this. Did Bush gain? Sure, but the moment he became presedent, he was set for life. Did he really, truely care to endanger that for some 'political' cause? Or fame? I don't think he's the type. He's the type to take the shortest, simplest method to ensure his own happiness.

Cant say tho.

[illmatik]

This is above and beyond the Bush mafia. The conflicts in this part of the world have been planned for some time, and not only by the US. As I've said time and time again, everyone needs to read Zbigniew Brzezinski's book 'The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives'. He was Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor and has been involved in American Foreign Policy ever since. The bottom line is, the nation that controls the unstable and tumultous Eurasia controls the world. We had to get back in there somehow, but the way the bush administration and the underlying Illuminati went about it was a bit retarded. Kerry would have done the same thing, although I'm sure in a much different way. I'd venture to say he would have encountered the same amount of resistance and violence as well. We're up against our own 'army' here. Afghanistan has a perfect home record. Nobody has ever beaten them on their own turf, even before the advent of the ever effective Stinger Missle.

It's not unlike when European Football teams go play Galatasaray in Turkey. The banners in the home end read "Welcome to Hell"

Definately get this book. You'll finish it in a weekend.. Brilliantly written and goes well into the subjects of Peak Oil and the deceptions surrounding this concept.

"It follows that America's primary interest is to help ensure that no single power comes to control this geopolitical space and that the global community has unhindered financial and economic access to it." (p148)

"China's growing economic presence in the region and its political stake in the area's independence are also congruent with America's interests." (p.149)

"America is now the only global superpower, and Eurasia is the globe's central arena. Hence, what happens to the distribution of power on the Eurasian continent will be of decisive importance to America's global primacy and to America's historical legacy." (p.194)

"That puts a premium on maneuver and manipulation in order to prevent the emergence of a hostile coalition that could eventually seek to challenge America's primacy..." (p. 198)

"The most immediate task is to make certain that no state or combination of states gains the capacity to expel the United States from Eurasia or even to diminish significantly its decisive arbitration role." (p. 198)

"In the long run, global politics are bound to become increasingly uncongenial to the concentration of hegemonic power in the hands of a single state. Hence, America is not only the first, as well as the only, truly global superpower, but it is also likely to be the very last." (p.209)

"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (p. 211)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0465027261/qid=1140325439/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-1054856-5987206?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

[WackyComputer]

I can't comment on the linked video /28k. But I can comment on other conspiracy theories I've seen.

Nerds sitting in their bedrooms slapping together a few random photos along with a spooky metal soundtrack into flash doesn't impress me much.

A radical religious terrorist group conspiring to attack the USA by way of hijacking our own airplanes and flying them into the WTC and the Pentagon is enough of a conspiracy for me.

Maybe I'm just closed minded.

[Player0]

Well, there ARE certain things that ARE facts that are much more important to worry about than theory. 9/11 HAS been used to further many many political causes and to strip away many personal freedoms in this country. This is certainly a fact and one that should be addressed asap. I dont want my freedoms taken away in exchange for some FALSE pretense of safety and security. The US will continue being a target as long as its one of the richest countries in the world. Hopefully another 9/11 wont happen anytime soon but its silly to think we can cover all the bases.

I still think the government is more incompetent than anything, and I dont think its possible for it to be as 'powerful' as most conspiracy theories suggest.

Osama may very well not have had anything to do with 9/11, though you'd think he'd take credit for it anyway eh? Unless he's scared of his terrorist 'bretherin'. Osama isnt important, if its not him, its some other person in this country or out of it.

The question to ask now is, was going in to Afganastan and Iraq AFTER-THE-FACT a good or bad thing for the people who live there? Sometimes there are no good decisions when it comes to these things, you just have to do what you think is right and hope for the best. Iraq is definitely not going to be fixed overnight, but something probably needed to be done there eventually. Does anyone think that Saddam was a good leader??

[notoriousformula]

I don't think Bush or US govt. should worry or care about if He was a good leader or not..Why we have to send our troops to fix somebody's else country? nobody asked for help in this case.. No weapons of mass destruction were found ..

[Player0]

In this world, unspeakable tortures and inhumanities go on every day. These dictators take office and do some pretty unspeakable things.

I used to be all for isolationism, let them all kill themselves, but it doesn't work that way. Thats what happened in Hitler's reign, and it didnt work so well. Millions died because the world didn't want to get involved.

It boils down to a question of philosophies, but I don't think there will ever be world progress unless someone steps in and helps. The US Govt is no picnic, I'll admit, but as bad as it is here, you generally DONT have to worry about being caught up in a war in the street or publically enslaved and disemboweled.

Saddam was pretty cut and dry in terms of being pretty much 'evil'. Yeah, they may not have been a threat to the US or other Western Countries, but there are certainly other political reasons for US involvement in the Middle East. What they are I have NO idea. I have NO idea why we like Israel. But thats another topic :)

[unacceptable_risk]

Well, that was a very interesting watch indeed. I know that facts and figures can be analized in many ways, each for a different result, but the sheer amount of conflicting, and missing information presented there left me with a bucket of unanswered questions.

There is no way a commercial airliner made that little dent on the side of the pentagon, or that two enormous Jet engines vapourised in a fire... I mean FFS they are a machine that is designed to harness the power of an AVGAS fire!!! GAhhh why even start into it, the facts conflict the official line all over the place.

The official explaination for 911 has always been, and remains paper thin and flimsy at best. For me, the conclusions drawn by this docco blew it away.
Despite that the idea 911 was a massive political stunt is a repulsive thought. I just find the story presented easier to believe than the official one.

We have learned the hard way why we shouldn't follow the US around the world on its crusades of shock and awe. Australia never had a terrorism problem untill we joined the coalition of the willing... Now people want to blow us up too, and our Gov just unleashed new powers to detain people for up to two weeks without charge, etc. Sure were a multicultural country, but you wouldnt want to have olive skin and a beard these days.

Do you ever wonder what sort of federally funded health and education systems you guys could have if all the war money had been spent at home?
One of the things that has been hit hard by the war/s has been scientific research spending..... Weve done war on drugs, war for oil, war on terrorism, and have the upcoming war on anyone else who wants a big gun like ours.

When is someone going to have a full scale war on cancer? A war on carbon release? I want to see a war on whale research, and I won't be happy untill I see one!!!

Oh look, I'm ranting.. Quick, back to my hole. Shhhhhh

[WackyComputer]

Thats what happened in Hitler's reign, and it didnt work so well. Millions died because the world didn't want to get involved.
I have NO idea why we like Israel.
Because the World got involved, made a Jewish State in the middle of an Arab State and dumped a few hundred thousand Jews in it.

[illmatik]

Because the World got involved, made a Jewish State in the middle of an Arab State and dumped a few hundred thousand Jews in it.

I have NO idea why we like Israel. But thats another topic :)

Well, world leaders were actually petitioned and even threatened/blackmailed for Unified support in the creation of the Israeli state. Those very same people here cry for the separation of church and state and beleive the messiah will lead them back to the promised land although those 'goy heretics' Balfour and Truman don't exactly fit the description of the Mossiach. This is also why many extreme sects like the Satmar and Lubavich (not sure if its one or both) believe the state should exist.

A good friend of mine argues we side with Israel because it's the only democracy and fair nation in the middle east.

Have you ever looked or overlook at the number of UN human rights violations Israel has on its scorecard lately?

Now I'm not a Nazi, but some of the 'gimmes' our ally in the region gets away with is more than enough to piss a lot of people off, especially their neighbors who are forever scrutinized under the global microscope for things that our media doesnt exactly present with the slightest attempt at objective reasoning. our opinions are pre-made for us.

[illmatik]

If you really want to get riled up try to find a book called The Secrets of The Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0965649210/002-1054856-5987206?v=glance&n=283155

[Synthohol]

i wont get defensive since i am not up to date on political events, i will point out that israel is pretty darn small, here is a small reference. http://www.iris.org.il/images/usa.gif

the israelies have been around for over 5700 years and there are more jews on the east coast of USA than in the whole middle east mostly in NY.
yes i have cought myself throwing israelies and jews in the same boat, israeli military fight like rabid dogs, they are tough and take no shit. if the usa's political beliefs differ from israel its still a good idea to keep them on our good side.
it is not my intention to cause a huge debate here, i dont have all the information i would need to defend or oppose either side, i sat in hebrew school for 4 years and had a bar mitzvah, if you want to perceive it as a form of brain washing then so be it.
as a matter of fact, i am unable to make the seperation of jews and israelies as two different parties so i am really at a dissadvantage here.
sorry.

[WackyComputer]

What's the matter with Kansas?;)

[Player0]

There is no way a commercial airliner made that little dent on the side of the pentagon, or that two enormous Jet engines vapourised in a fire... I mean FFS they are a machine that is designed to harness the power of an AVGAS fire!!!

Theres an interesting fact here. Just because there aren't pictures doesnt mean it didnt happen. The Pentagon is a very secretive place, that we know. Those pictures may even have been doctored by the pentagon on short notice (why the details are all wrong) just to show the public something. Also, a commercial airliner has NEVER hit anything as hard as the pentagon before. Even mountains are 'softer' and planes generally hit at an angle. Im not sure what a jet engine would do hitting so 'flat' against something so 'hard' with so much force, but it probably wont retain its shape nearly as well as one than plows in to dirt. But either way, just because they werent 'officially' found doesnt mean they werent there. I think in an effort to cover up the pentagons internal secrets, NOT the plane crash, most of the information on this has been hidden, and possibly even doctored. But im just playing devils advocate. There could be very good reasons not to want people to see what was in that part of the building, in fact, that part was the most recently reinforced part making me think there were some interesting things in there they didnt want the whole world to see.

We have learned the hard way why we shouldn't follow the US around the world on its crusades of shock and awe. Australia never had a terrorism problem untill we joined the coalition of the willing... Now people want to blow us up too, and our Gov just unleashed new powers to detain people for up to two weeks without charge, etc.

Thats a popular feeling in other Western nations these days. Isolationism. But again, you just have to look in the history books to see how well that works. Any problem is a global problem these days, and the Australian economy is very much dependent on the US economy (all Western economies are tied together), which is why AU gets involved in the first place (like other wars).

Do you ever wonder what sort of federally funded health and education systems you guys could have if all the war money had been spent at home?

Another big topic. On that note, I dont want a federally funded health system. I want a federally regulated health system, so these pharmecuticals can't rake human existence over the coals. I just don't want to pay for any other lazy Americans in this country. And there's a lot of em.

When is someone going to have a full scale war on cancer? A war on carbon release?

Any win in these arenas would be pyric at best. There's no solid path to start on.

[WackyComputer]

There are plenty of photos of debris from the Pentagon crash.

http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-photos.html

[Player0]

Only what THEY want you to see man!!! ;)