Player0
11-22-2004, 03:56 PM
Abit AV8 & AMD S939 3500+ 90nm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The combo can be had for under $410 or even less right now. The 3500+ is the most affordable S939 right now and scores high marks in the overclocking department. Unlike the Prescott, the new AMD architecture does run faster and cooler, as promised. The new 3200+ and 3500+ are the chips to have for overclocking. However, beware the 90nm woes with motherboard compatibility. Although recent BIOSes for most S939 boards correct the incompatibilities, if you dont have an older 130nm CPU laying around for a flash-job, you could be stuck. Using WinFlash and a Abit IC7, I was able to hotflash the AV8 with the latest BIOS. Yeah, it was a pain, but I didnt want to wait or spend money on a preflashed BIOS. WinFlash works great for hotflashing, much more compatible. And yes, you can hotflash from a completely dissimilar board, as long as the EEPROMS are the same. Highly recommend the EEPROM removal tools though, using screwdrivers isnt fun.
The AV8 I haven't pushed so hard, but once the new BIOS was in, it was running like a champ. I haven't had much luck with Abit lately, but maybe this new board is different. uGuru is growing on me, and I'm particually impressed with the BIOS inlay. It seems to have a lot of handy features. It comes with a passive NB cooler, which is a step up since every Abit NB fan I've ever had has died on me. However, I cant help but to wish for a cooler Northbridge. I have a Thermalright NB-1C coming today, Im not sure if it will fit on the K8T800 but I will try.
The AV8 woudlnt work with my Antec TruePower 550w which is a bummer. Im not sure why but I knew this would be an issue since other people have had it. The RAM spacing is funny, with the two DIMMs in dual channel sitting right next to each other. With ram running hot, id rather have the extra space between the dimms, but I suppose the shorter traces help the overclocking.
In terms of overclocking prowess, I'm still working on that. I haven't touched it yet honestly. I was just so releived to get it working for the lan party, and so I could finish up HL2. Does it compete with the MSI Neo? Time will tell on that one.
OCZ PC4200 Platinum 1GB
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is some BAD stuff. Using the newer TCCD modules (which, is a good thing according to most people) which allow for some seriously high voltages (I hear it likes well over 3.0v) should really pump out some nice times on the AMD. It has some serious low latency for anything over PC4000, again, very good for the AMD platforms. I have the OCZ DDR Booster coming and I will see how high I can push this stuff. In the meantime, it's definitely better than my Corsair XMS modules in terms of performance. And it was pretty affordable as well at $365 ish for the gig. The Corsair XMS4400 goes for the same price and doesnt run as fast, although its technically rated for a higher bus.
DangerDen Stuff
~~~~~~~~~~
Went on kind of a DangerDen shopping spree. Firstly, I picked up the Silver TDX. It's an expensive block, and I know that the move to silver is hardly worth it. However, in switching from the RBX, I didnt want to loose performance. In terms of AMD64 mounting, I love it! It was so easy, thanks mostly in part to the AMDs pre-existing back plate. The DDen springs are very powerful, and the included spacers definitely remove a lot of guess work when it comes to mounting. However, I feel that the kit needs to come with 4 steel washers. The springs ended up kind of messing up the nylon washers, and I needed to use slightly larger steel washers in order to keep the edges of the springs from coming over the nylon washer. Also, I would like to see DangerDen offer your choise of internal nozzle upon purchase, not just the nozzle kit. Most people get the best performance with nozzle #4 or #5 (im using #5 right now). Yeah, performance is right there with the RBX, but not much better. The Swifty MCW6000 is supposed to do better according to many sources, but I haven't tried that block yet. I beleive Wes is finishing up his review on that. Other than the Swifty, it's really the most available CPU block for the AMD64 in the states with 2 barbs and good performance (not like one of those 'kit' blocks). If the G4 Storm is ever available, its probably the one to get.
I migrated from the MCW50 to the DangerDen Maze4-1GPU. According to one of LN's own reviews, the MCW50 lost to the DDen GPU block. I still went with the MCW50 originally because I assumed it would be better for my purposes. I was wrong. Although the MCW50 is a better looking block, and I dont mind the quick inserts for 1/2" running, the mounting on the DDen block is much better. If for nothing else than the rear-mounting bar that prevents video card bending. This allows for more pressure and greater stability. I did get the TEC version, and the 80w peltier is seriously underpowered. At 12v, the 80w peltier is only drawing 5.6a from my readings which is 30% less powerful. Although this is good for 6-8c lower GPU temperatures, they still hover in the low 50s. Just what wattage is the ATI 9800XT core running at? My guess is 50w or more, which means a larger peltier is required here. The 172w 24v peltier is widely available and is also 40mm so it will fit the block. At 12v, it draws about 5a, slightly less than the 80W. The 80w at 12v and 53w Input has a dT of about 24c at room temp. The 172w at 12v and 51w Input has a dT of 24c at room temp. With hot at 50c, the 172 does 30dT, while the 80 does 23dT. These numbers are strange, but come directly off the peltier spec sheets. Considering that our hotside temperatures are going to be 50c, the 172w peltier does provide more cooling with less amperate at 12v than the 80w version.
So why is it then that every 40mm GPU block comes with the 80w version and not the 172w version? Are manufacturers scared off by the 24v issue? Even though peltiers can operate at a wide range of voltages? Or are the real word numbers different? Well, Ill order a new 172w peltier and try it out myself at 12v to see if my temps are better. Ideally, Ill find a small 24v 11a PSU that can handle it, since I need some serious cooling for the 9800XT, mine which overclocks very poorly.
The DangerDen D4 12v Pump (aka MCP650 lol). Is it better than an MCP600? Im having a hard time deciding. It's still not powerful enough for the TDX with the #5, a GPU, and two radiators. I could do with a second one in the system. Now if I can just find the room (and money!).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The combo can be had for under $410 or even less right now. The 3500+ is the most affordable S939 right now and scores high marks in the overclocking department. Unlike the Prescott, the new AMD architecture does run faster and cooler, as promised. The new 3200+ and 3500+ are the chips to have for overclocking. However, beware the 90nm woes with motherboard compatibility. Although recent BIOSes for most S939 boards correct the incompatibilities, if you dont have an older 130nm CPU laying around for a flash-job, you could be stuck. Using WinFlash and a Abit IC7, I was able to hotflash the AV8 with the latest BIOS. Yeah, it was a pain, but I didnt want to wait or spend money on a preflashed BIOS. WinFlash works great for hotflashing, much more compatible. And yes, you can hotflash from a completely dissimilar board, as long as the EEPROMS are the same. Highly recommend the EEPROM removal tools though, using screwdrivers isnt fun.
The AV8 I haven't pushed so hard, but once the new BIOS was in, it was running like a champ. I haven't had much luck with Abit lately, but maybe this new board is different. uGuru is growing on me, and I'm particually impressed with the BIOS inlay. It seems to have a lot of handy features. It comes with a passive NB cooler, which is a step up since every Abit NB fan I've ever had has died on me. However, I cant help but to wish for a cooler Northbridge. I have a Thermalright NB-1C coming today, Im not sure if it will fit on the K8T800 but I will try.
The AV8 woudlnt work with my Antec TruePower 550w which is a bummer. Im not sure why but I knew this would be an issue since other people have had it. The RAM spacing is funny, with the two DIMMs in dual channel sitting right next to each other. With ram running hot, id rather have the extra space between the dimms, but I suppose the shorter traces help the overclocking.
In terms of overclocking prowess, I'm still working on that. I haven't touched it yet honestly. I was just so releived to get it working for the lan party, and so I could finish up HL2. Does it compete with the MSI Neo? Time will tell on that one.
OCZ PC4200 Platinum 1GB
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is some BAD stuff. Using the newer TCCD modules (which, is a good thing according to most people) which allow for some seriously high voltages (I hear it likes well over 3.0v) should really pump out some nice times on the AMD. It has some serious low latency for anything over PC4000, again, very good for the AMD platforms. I have the OCZ DDR Booster coming and I will see how high I can push this stuff. In the meantime, it's definitely better than my Corsair XMS modules in terms of performance. And it was pretty affordable as well at $365 ish for the gig. The Corsair XMS4400 goes for the same price and doesnt run as fast, although its technically rated for a higher bus.
DangerDen Stuff
~~~~~~~~~~
Went on kind of a DangerDen shopping spree. Firstly, I picked up the Silver TDX. It's an expensive block, and I know that the move to silver is hardly worth it. However, in switching from the RBX, I didnt want to loose performance. In terms of AMD64 mounting, I love it! It was so easy, thanks mostly in part to the AMDs pre-existing back plate. The DDen springs are very powerful, and the included spacers definitely remove a lot of guess work when it comes to mounting. However, I feel that the kit needs to come with 4 steel washers. The springs ended up kind of messing up the nylon washers, and I needed to use slightly larger steel washers in order to keep the edges of the springs from coming over the nylon washer. Also, I would like to see DangerDen offer your choise of internal nozzle upon purchase, not just the nozzle kit. Most people get the best performance with nozzle #4 or #5 (im using #5 right now). Yeah, performance is right there with the RBX, but not much better. The Swifty MCW6000 is supposed to do better according to many sources, but I haven't tried that block yet. I beleive Wes is finishing up his review on that. Other than the Swifty, it's really the most available CPU block for the AMD64 in the states with 2 barbs and good performance (not like one of those 'kit' blocks). If the G4 Storm is ever available, its probably the one to get.
I migrated from the MCW50 to the DangerDen Maze4-1GPU. According to one of LN's own reviews, the MCW50 lost to the DDen GPU block. I still went with the MCW50 originally because I assumed it would be better for my purposes. I was wrong. Although the MCW50 is a better looking block, and I dont mind the quick inserts for 1/2" running, the mounting on the DDen block is much better. If for nothing else than the rear-mounting bar that prevents video card bending. This allows for more pressure and greater stability. I did get the TEC version, and the 80w peltier is seriously underpowered. At 12v, the 80w peltier is only drawing 5.6a from my readings which is 30% less powerful. Although this is good for 6-8c lower GPU temperatures, they still hover in the low 50s. Just what wattage is the ATI 9800XT core running at? My guess is 50w or more, which means a larger peltier is required here. The 172w 24v peltier is widely available and is also 40mm so it will fit the block. At 12v, it draws about 5a, slightly less than the 80W. The 80w at 12v and 53w Input has a dT of about 24c at room temp. The 172w at 12v and 51w Input has a dT of 24c at room temp. With hot at 50c, the 172 does 30dT, while the 80 does 23dT. These numbers are strange, but come directly off the peltier spec sheets. Considering that our hotside temperatures are going to be 50c, the 172w peltier does provide more cooling with less amperate at 12v than the 80w version.
So why is it then that every 40mm GPU block comes with the 80w version and not the 172w version? Are manufacturers scared off by the 24v issue? Even though peltiers can operate at a wide range of voltages? Or are the real word numbers different? Well, Ill order a new 172w peltier and try it out myself at 12v to see if my temps are better. Ideally, Ill find a small 24v 11a PSU that can handle it, since I need some serious cooling for the 9800XT, mine which overclocks very poorly.
The DangerDen D4 12v Pump (aka MCP650 lol). Is it better than an MCP600? Im having a hard time deciding. It's still not powerful enough for the TDX with the #5, a GPU, and two radiators. I could do with a second one in the system. Now if I can just find the room (and money!).